Reply With QuoteThe fact that many fights require 2+ tanks, meaning not always getting hit for procs, coupled with the already crappy low proc rate...well crap this ring is looking worse and worse!
Yeah, in average terms that's what it would take for the budget.Originally Posted by WarTotem
Although I suspected that they are budgeting based on the maximum value then reducing the cost--thus incurring a slightly inflated cost associated with their power-based costing...that doesn't seem to be the case with the DPS ones.
If I look at the melee ring, it is ilevel 272 even with the average value calculated in based on uptime. (Because the ring already contains Attack Power, and the proc is Attack Power, technically that forces it overbudget. Doing them seperate results in it being slightly underbudget...so probably averages out OK. :P)
The DPS caster ring is very similar, with the average value being added to the existing spellpower (since the proc is SP and it already has 101 SP) increasing the ilevel to roughly 271, or slightly overbudget.
Calculated the same way that allows the other items to be in-budget causes the tank ring to only be ilevel 260 based on optimal uptime (e.g. 10s every 60s), which is 10 ilevels below the other rings.
So, bottom line, the tanking one seems woefully underbudget not only compared to its own ilevel but also compared to the calculation of the other rings even under optimal conditions.
The fact that it actually has such low uptime in reality makes it nowhere near the budget of the other rings in realistic conditions.
Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!
The fact that many fights require 2+ tanks, meaning not always getting hit for procs, coupled with the already crappy low proc rate...well crap this ring is looking worse and worse!
"Humility doesn't remove the crown from your head - it shows why you deserve to wear one."
Well if you're tank switching and not being hit, it doesn't matter that it's not proccing. In fact, procs with an internal cooldown, like Black Heart, typically have a higher effective uptime on fights with tank switches, due to having time while not tanking for the internal cooldown to finish.
That said, this is still a pretty bad ring all around, and I'm hoping Blizzard will take note and change it. In the meantime, I'm sticking to my Clutch of Fortification and Ony ring. I'd really love to see another ring itemized like the Ony ring.
I think the point of it is, it's a great starter ring, replaceable by drops inside the instance. Nowhere near the godliness of the one from Hyjal rep/completing Vashj/Kael.
"There are no men like me...only me."
-Kingslayer
Well, not sure I agree with that.
My take on it is that it's simply broken. Although one could make a rationale that 'it's this way because....' it just appears to be busted to me.
For an item to be that high ilevel and still be so low value indicates nothing more than it having an issue needing to be fixed. It isn't consistant with its ilevel. It isn't consistant with the other rings granted by the same quest. It isn't even consistant with the items available in the 10-man instance.
For many classes, the 277 ring is BiS or 2nd BiS of available known items.
For tanks it's like 4th best for survival and EH even with the socket, and far far inferior to the BiS option. The 268 version is outpaced by a 245 item that drops in TotC-10H, which isn't right at all.
So, I don't really see why it should be a 'starter item' for tanks and a 'keep forever' item for Mages or whatever other classes it's great for. (Oddly enough, it's potentially BiS for even DPS Warriors despite that they haven't even made the Strength version yet!)
I ran some numbers with it at a 100% proc rate and it would actually be performing similar for tanks relative to the other rings for other classes if it actually had maximum uptime. So, I'm pretty certain that's what they sensibly need to do with it.
Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!
Ok so here is some more info taken directly from WoL meter from last night. My guild had miserable attendance so had a bunch of socials and trials in and suffice to say we sucked on 25m Festergut.
We took 17 attempts to down him and the actual kill took approximately 5 minutes. So with about 60-65 minutes of fight time (since wipes wouldn't take the full 85 minutes for 5 minutes each attempt) my ilvl 277 variation of the ring procced only 12 times. WoL said it had an uptime of 3.4%.
So if you are looking at a 3.4% uptime proc of 2400 armor for 10 sec on a boss, that really doesn't seem that great =(
However, Festergut has the tank swap mechanic so perhaps on a tank & spank fight you might be closer to 6%?
I went and checked the Deathbringer Saurfang fight from the week before which took about 4.5 minutes and it procced twice so that WoL listed it as 7.2% uptime.
So it would appear the ring up-time ranges from around 3% to 8 or 9% for a geared Prot Warrior depending on fight, avoidance and RNG. Definitely doesn't seem to be the greatest item stat budget for an ilvl 277 ring considering WarTotem's post stating that it should be up around 34.79% up-time to be on par.
Well, it would need that 30odd value of uptime to be in budget, however if it simply was at its maximum uptime (16.6%) it would be relatively comparable to the other available rings in a fashion similar to most other classes in regard to their relevant ring.
The problem is the 3% proc rate, which just doesn't make any sense at all given the existance of an ICD.
Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!
I have to agree with everyone, the proc rate is currently so low as to be worth much less than even the triumph emblem ring. The sad 10m Gunship ring (Abom's Bloody, I think, the 251 version) is even equal to it, and that is rated significantly lower than the Clutch.
The main use for this ring is epeen when it comes time to PUG in Dalaran, and everyone looks you over with the onerous GS add-on. Terribly sad for such a tremendous iLvl budget.
Developer Twitter chat transcript for January 15th, organized by categoryQ. Are there any plans to change the Ashen Verdict tank ring to proc more often? The current uptime vs bosses is almost nonexistent.
A. We have been adjusting a lot of procs so far and this one is on our radar. Tanks still manage to avoid hits a lot, which makes the proc less useful.
did you ppl consider the possibility this ring was never designed to be the best EH ring? all i see here is ppl comparing it to rings that are made for EH set, while in my eyes this rep ring is made for a threat set.
so as soon as i saw it i tought, great nice (free) ring for my threat set, i actually couldn't care less for the proc rate in my eyes it's just a little extra, but i wouldn't miss it if it wasn't there.
and i doubt it will ever go in my EH set as while they may crank up the uptime, it will always have downtime and that's not really something you look for in a EH set in my opinion
Because it's underbudget compared to the other threat rings as well.
Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!
bc there are so many threat rings around without resorting to dps rings amirite?
maybe it's just my guild, but we never are swimming in jewelery so the day i can take dps rings for my threat set without em being a tier below current content still has to arrive.
it's by far the best threat ring out of there that isn't a dps ring and best of all it's free.
I'd wager to say that the last thing most people want to see in a tanking ring is more hit. ><
At least us bears sure don't. I'm already melee hit capped and expertise hard capped at the moment. (That'll change soon, darn T10).
Just fix the proc so we're not laughing at a 277 ring being inferior to 245 options. =)
I'm fine with the hit as a DK. Not much hit on the non-set, bonus armor gear.
Koji, have you posted your math on the official forums? Don't bother with getting involved with the drumbeat of flamebait posts, but making sure the info is there for the devs to see could really help IMO.
He was not even talking about dps rings.
Here, a simple wowhead search:
Rings - Items - World of Warcraft
unfortunately there are no expertise rings added this patch but 2 other tanking rings have hit on them besides the rep one, one is boe and the other is from 10 man.
Sadly, I play on the EU servers and the main threads where this had been looked at by blues are on the US. If someone wants to re-post it on the US forums, I don't mind at all.
Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!
Aight, I'll get this up on the US forums later today, with credit to you.
and both of them are worse then the rep one. fine it might be little underbudget, not like it's the first time blizz budgeted something "wrong" and i'm sure it won't be the last time.
also why do ppl expect greatness from a ring you can get without ever killing a boss.
fact still stands it's the best threat ring around if you can use the hit which at least dk will certainly be able to do and i bet other plate tanks aswell. and fact still stand that even if the ramp up the uptime of this ring it will still not make BiS for EH.
EDIT: and if you feel the need to post a link, at least do it properly, you missed a ring, here you have the full list
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks