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Thread: Ashen Band of Endless Courage Proc

  1. #1
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    Ashen Band of Endless Courage Proc

    Ashen Band of Endless Courage ilvl 277 ring includes a proc:
    Frostforged Defender
    30 yd range
    Instant
    Increases armor by 2400 for 10 sec.
    I decided to go look at our WoL parse from last night in which we cleared ICC25m up through Rotface (didn't get to Festergut/Putricide before ending raid time due to a late start).

    I am confused regarding the information in the WoL parse. Looking at the entire night it shows:
    Buff Name .................. Amount ... Uptime ................. %
    Frostforged Defender ... 17 .......... 3111.3 ................. 24.5%
    Isn't that supposed to mean that the ring proc "Frostforged Defender" happened 17 times for 10 seconds each during the course of the raid? How is 17 procs of 10 seconds supposed to equal 3111 seconds or 24.5%? I am likely just reading it wrong or something.

  2. #2
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    Maybe it only counts procs where the proc does not refresh an existing buff?

    In other words, Only 17 times through the fight did the buff go off when you did not already ahve the buff on you. The remainder of the time the procs refreshed an already active buff. that might explain it.

  3. #3
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    That would really make the uptime information from WoL pretty much worthless though wouldn't it?

    Does it treat other procs in that manner? Slam! procs as Fury for example from Bloodsurge seem to overlap but I was always under the impression WoL counted them all. As such most people simply never have a chance to get 100% usage of slam procs since they are busy with WW/Bloodthirst.

  4. #4
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    There's alot of people saying it has about a 3% actual proc rate, 17 in a raid probably isnt far off given it only procs when you get hit.. which kinda seems dumb for a tank considering most run 60%+ avoidance.

  5. #5
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    my uptime on it on my wol was 1.1% it proced 12 times for the entire night ... pretty sure its bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
    There's alot of people saying it has about a 3% actual proc rate, 17 in a raid probably isnt far off given it only procs when you get hit.. which kinda seems dumb for a tank considering most run 60%+ avoidance.
    60%+ ... minus 20% from Icewell Radiance
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  7. #7
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    The proc rate is really bad.

    With that said, I still think it's a nice ring for threat (i'm currently scrounging for hit rating).

    I'm more annoyed with the fact that it's proc is wasted on a frost dk in badge gear since they already come dangerously close to armor cap with Unbreakable popped.

  8. #8
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    I think much of the angst towards this ring comes from the admittedly low proc rate. Outside of that, the fully upgraded ring is very good for what it is, and the proc is icing on the cake. Not many rings out there that give you great stats + an armor proc, low rate or not.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antioch View Post
    I think much of the angst towards this ring comes from the admittedly low proc rate. Outside of that, the fully upgraded ring is very good for what it is, and the proc is icing on the cake. Not many rings out there that give you great stats + an armor proc, low rate or not.
    Ya, but H-Band of the Twin Val'kyr has stam + static armor and calculates out to more EHP than the 277 version (taking out the proc since I find it completely inconsequential). I just find that wrong on some level.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
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  10. #10
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    Hmm this is true, and in fact that very Twins ring is the other ring I'm using. Honestly it's a mixed bag in terms of sheer stable tanking. When the lowish proc does proc, you have some great "burst" EH, but with so many variables in boss fights, like imagining the ring procing and then you get Rune of Blood...yeah lol.

    The +Hit is nice for threat, but I'm not lacking in either of those departments.

    TBH, stability wins it here, and if it was possible I'd rather just equip a 2nd heroic Twins armor ring.

  11. #11
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    I'm currently using clutch of fortification and H-twins, I'll switch the clutch out for H-Band of the Traitor King if it's a very magic/unmitigatible damage fight. I honestly just picked up the DPS ring instead and am going to just wait for the really good ring from ICC25. I forget the name off the top of my head.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
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  12. #12
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    Yeah, the uptime is terrible.

    On average, I'm only getting it once per boss fight--so typically 10s every 5 minutes or so. So 3-4% uptime.

    By comparison, the physical DPS ring is pretty much up exactly 10s every 1 minute, while the caster ones tend to be a bit longer but still 3-4 times per 5 minute fight at least.


    Two problems with this ring:
    1. On damage taken procs only happen on non-avoided hits, and thus only about 60-65% of our damage taken (adjusted up a bit for magical damage sources) has a chance of triggering the proc
    2. A 3% chance to proc is just really low. The caster rings have 10% for comparison, and unless we are tanking trash we get hit a lot more infrequently than casters use offensive spells.
    Given that these rings are just clones of the Hyjal rep rings, it's quite possible that it having the 3% proc rate is a throwback to the fact that all tanks were doing in that tier was AoE tanking gobs of mobs constantly. Back then, the 3% proc rate probably worked fine. However, we don't really do that much anymore, and bosses are more the focus of gearing.

    IMO, the proc rate needs to be boosted to at least 10-15%, possibly more like 20%. 3% is just way, way too low.

    And Aggathon, the super-nice ring is Devium's Eternally Cold Ring, which is just great for basically everything.
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  13. #13
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    I don't think Blizz spent any item budget on that procc. It's only there so the ring becomes secksah. The procc doesn't make or break the ring. As long as there are alternatives(and there are) I would disregard that procc completely.

    I have to say I'm not overly fond of mitigation proccs anyway. There is no guarantee they are there when you need them the most. I tend to disregard all item proccs when I decide what to equip.

    Nobody used the black heart for the armor procc. It was used because it was a nice and accessible stamina boost for those of us who have had terrible luck with drops. I've hardly seen any tank with the Quel'serrar because that thing has a couple of problems. Nobody in his right mind kept it for the armor procc.
    Then of course I'm very biased against mitigation/avoid proccs.

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  14. #14
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    Differently than the ashen ring, the Quel had an absurd uptime, on the lines of 80%+... Sucks there's no better tank weapon for threat right now >.> Damn lack of raiding.

  15. #15
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    Lots of people used The Black Heart for the Armor proc, just like lots of people use the BQS for the Armor proc.

    Not sure why you are making a blanket statement that nobody uses proc--especially when said procs are very valuable and have high uptime. (BQS has an uptime upwards of 50-60%, why wouldn't you consider the proc?)

    Anyway...back on topic!

    Item Level Analysis
    I am almost 100% certain that the proc is inside the budget. I ran formulas on the Ashen Band of Unmatched Courage - Item - World of Warcraft and it came to being an ilevel 257 item without the proc.

    I ran the same formulas on Abomination's Bloody Ring - Item - World of Warcraft and the ring was well in-budget for the expected ilevel, and has a higher budget than the rep ring even with the lower ilevel.

    Interestingly, if you wonder how much Armor you would need to make the item in budget to go from ilevel 257 -> 268, you would be 835 passive armor to make it work out.

    Now... if you do the math, the uptime for the physical DPS ring is roughly 16%. Our proc is 2400 Armor. 2400 * .16 would be around 400 Armor average/passive. So even it it had 'normal' uptime it would be kinda underbudget.

    However, to explore their budging logic, stats get more expensive the more you stack. So I experimented with doing the cost of 2400 Armor, then multiplied the cost of that mod by the uptime of .16. This resulted in the item being ilevel 267.7--otherwise, more or less exactly correct.

    Conclusion
    If the proc actually had the same uptime as the physical DPS ring, it would logically be in budget.

    With its current design, though, by the same proc cost adjustment logic which makes it in budget based on my uptime experiences (2400 armor cost * 0.03) it makes the ring ilevel 260, or 8 ilevels underbudget. Even adjusted for maximum statistical uptime with the current proc rate, the 268 ring is a lower virtual ilevel than the 264 rings available in ICC-25N.

    Bottom line: they need to fix the proc or the ring is bad.
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  16. #16
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    You can actually easily see that the proc is part of the item budget. The 259 and 268 versions are exactly the same except for the proc. It's a mystery to me why this thing only has a 3% proc chance though. The internal cooldown would keep it from being too good for trash anyway, it could easily have a 10% proc chance (and possibly even on swing, not on hit).

    That said, it would still be silly to use Clutch of Fortification over the 277 rep ring.

  17. #17
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    I honestly think it could have a 100% proc chance with the ICD and still be within the budget, as calculated with the 16% uptime.

    It would still be 'only' 400 armor, on average, which is below the budget of a passive item like Devium's ring, which has 750.
    Last edited by Kojiyama; 01-15-2010 at 04:28 AM.
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  18. #18
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    I stand corrected.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
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    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    Interestingly, if you wonder how much Armor you would need to make the item in budget to go from ilevel 257 -> 268, you would be 835 passive armor to make it work out.
    In other words, for the 2400 Armor buff to be worth it, it would have to average out to 835 / 2400 = 34.79% uptime.
    I don't see that happening unless you're tanking a lot of trash at once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
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  20. #20
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    Good work there Koj.

    So I guess everyone will continue to use H twins and Ony's ring until devium's is avalible? (I'll still be wearing Ashen Band in Dal for purposes of HP and fapping.)

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