Re-Revisited: Rolling on DPS drops while tanking

[orcstar]

This thread kept spinning in my head. http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/5...e-tanking.html

It's about rolling on dps-gear while tanking an instance.

What kept me thinking was: with the dungeon finder you can specify multiple roles, you don't actually choose to go as tank but if you check 2 boxes you tell the dungeon finder that you provide 2 services: tank and dps.
If the dungeon finder chooses for you that the population needs tanks for heroics, even when you for instance specified a dps role also, should it mean you should stick to tanking drops?

I would also say it up front. But still, if you select both roles in the lfg system that's imo the same.

[Airowird]

The problem is that the LFG tool doesn't tell you what rolls the other people have picked.

In fact, you can be ported to an heroic and stand all 5 as DPS and only the tank & healer know that they should swap spec.
This part can be improved though, especially since you already got the debuff on you before you can even see if everyone agrees on who gets to roll need on what.

[psychocrasha]

I would like the LFG loot rule updated like this:

If I am tanking the instance, after boss dead, we get the item loot screen, I can't roll need on a dps item if any dps already clicks need on it. However, if all dps clicked pass, or greed/disenchant, I am able to roll need, or greed/disenchant on this item. And the same is true for dps rolling on tank gears.

That said, for a while I never rolled need on dps plates in the new instances which now I think it would be ok to roll need. It's simple, I tried doing LFG as dps and hours passed and I still didn't find any group...so going in as tank, I am actually helping others grouping faster and seeing I don't need tank gears from these instances, I should have a chance to roll on dps gears (though I do tell them in party chat about this loot rule just to make it fair).

[Spinks]

I have no qualms about rolling need for something I'm going to use, offspec or not, in heroics. It isn't as if the heroic isn't going to be there tomorrow, or the next day, etc. People need to chill and let the RNG sort it out.

[MellvarTank]

If you are doing random dungeons, it's not as big of a deal as it used to be... because you can run dungeons multiple times if it is random. Fancy that.....

[Hatchetman240]

Heh, IMO if you tanked you did everyone else a huge favor. Roll on!

[swelt]

Is it really necessary to "re-revisit" this? I mean, surely the answer is "respect your fellow players and use your good judgement"? Making yourself arbitrary rules like "only in the spec you ran the instance in" is daft, as you illustrate with your own anecdote. But so would taking something that was a massive upgrade for a dps guy, or for which the guy had farmed the instance for weeks, just for your offspec.

[Eisen]

Despite what you check off at the start, when you accept a dungeon invite it specifies your role. If you accept that invite whichever role you selected IS your role for that dungeon. You should only be rolling on the dropds for that role as a matter of politeness.

That's with a caveat though. If you REALLY want a certain drop that's not part of your current role, announce it at the beginning of the instance and see what the person(s) playing that role think. If they're OK with it, no worries. If not, well you should have signed up as the role you want to play, not the one you know will get your a group faster.

Case in point: One of my first random dungeons on my warlock we had a Warrior tank in H-POS. HE was chain pulling WAY faster than anyone was uncomfortable with, and he skipped things several of us needed for the quests. He high-tailed it to Forgemaster, we killed him, the 2h hammer dropped. He rolled need against a DPS paladin (who was understandably upset) without saying a word. Once he won the role he went "Haha, bye suckers!" and dropped group.

Now, there's a lot of things wrong with that, but not being clear about his intentions was the start. If he has asked, the pally mgiht have been OK with him rolling. Or might have even said "I don't need it, go on."

[Vincenoir]

The LFD tool has opened up a whole new world for sketchy rolling tactics on all fronts. If I'm queuing up for the random as a tank I'm not going in there for the purpose of rolling on DPS gear, I'm just joining up to get some quick badges (hopefully). However, if I've queued up specifically as DPS, as I did when running FoS for the Scorpion, I will not roll on tank gear. Those are my rules.

The problem lies in that not everybody plays by these same rules. There are tanks/healers that roll on DPS gear without saying a word just as much as there are DPSers rolling on offspec gear too.

I once tanked FoS when I queued for a random with no intention of rolling on the NES if it dropped. That particular run wasn't too horrible, but the pally healer was a tad undergeared and there were some wipes. The NES did in fact drop and the DPSing DK and Rogue were quite excited to see it drop and rolled need. So did the pally...

That didn't sit well with me so I rolled on it with the intention of giving it to the DPSer that rolled the highest. Thankfully the DK won it and no major drama happened. I got my own NES the following day as DPS so I didn't lose out on anything either.

Long story short: We can do our best to lead by example, but the TankSpot community has proven to be more well behaved than some of the flaming idiots that play this game with us. Hopefully some of our good behavior will rub off on others down the road.

[Maèl]

I only enter FoS for the NES. Same goes for HoR for the plate boots.
I tell this everybody up front after entering the dungeon. I point out that I wouldn't be there in the first place if it wasn't for these two drops.

I'm honest about it an a couple of DPS have dropped group as a response. That's ok since it's their choice wether they want to risk lower odds when rolling for it or not. Everybody just gets one shot at this per day so it's their call.

But I will NOT tank this thing day in day out for the odd chance that miraculously one day DPS doesn't need it no more. I need it for my off spec. It's the only reason I'm in there. I will roll on it.

Same went for the nice 2hand axe which I have twice. Same went for the nice DPS bracers.

If you silently roll on it and then cause drama then it's you who is the problem. If you are honest about it, then it's the other players choice. But in case of the NES placing my roll only after everybody else has placed his and only need it when everybody else only greeded it is not an option for me. I usually do that but the drop chance is prohibitively low.

[Skulltar]

Before the LFG system how many people made groups to farm regular toc 5 for the tank trinket and usualy a dps would win it?

[Bashal]

Maybe its just me, but when I want to farm for an item, I get some guildies to help me. I do the same for others.

IMO, using the LFG system to fill out your group is not good for trying to get those last few upgrades. It's good for the odd lucky drop, and badge farming, and that's about it.

[Maèl]

Before the LFG system how many people made groups to farm regular toc 5 for the tank trinket and usualy a dps would win it?

...or a healer. "For PvP".

But take a look around this place. It mirrors what happened with the LFG tool.
There is a flood of people who picked up a tanking off spec for shorter queue times. TS is currently being flooded by fresh tanks. Now it could only be my perception but I guess this is what's happening.

So bear that in mind that people who fulfill dps roles in raids pick up the slack and tank yet they still are dps DPS at heart. Of course they will need NES when it is the best alternative currently available to them.

Just hope they will not stop tanking once they have everything they need or you might be facing 1hr queue time. I know I will stop milking the instances once I get tired of them. You'll get a 3g repair bill and that might not be the best use of your time if you are in it for the money.

[Cabar]

Meh, rolling need on offspec? One thing I dislike about the new Need/Greed rules is if people CAN roll need, they feel justified in doing so. Just like in life, just because you can get away with something you know is wrong, it doesn't make you any less of an asshat for doing it.

As far as any privilege you feel you have for Tanking.... Well hey, how about a 2s wait time? If you want to roll on DPS stuff you either wait 10 minutes in the DPS queue or whine to a buddy to tank for you. Or PO your group by needing offspec and probably get ignored from future queues.

It's your choice to make either way, but don't get defensive when people call a spade a spade.

[Darksend]

you CANNOT roll greed for offspec

/thread

seriously, that is the one thing that I did not realize. A priest in my guild had just hit 80 on his alt, a resto druid. HE WAS NOT ALLOWED to roll need on spirit cloth because of the rules of the system. As such while everyone was rolling de on spirit cloth he was rolling greed to use the item but 9/10 times the item got deed.

While I by no means am saying there is a better way to do this (if greed got preference 4 people would roll de and the de'er would roll greed and keep all the loot for himself) it just seems kind of stupid there is no way to get offspec loot or in my guildies case gear up his druid in upgrades because cloth is better than leather but the system does not recognize that.

[kingymech]

I would also say it up front. But still, if you select both roles in the lfg system that's imo the same.

thats how i do it, unless im in there with somone i know then ill pass on the dps stuff

The problem is that the LFG tool doesn't tell you what rolls the other people have picked.

if u hover over hte eye it tells u

[Maèl]

you CANNOT roll greed for offspec

Many DKs, warriors, druids and paladins chose tank as offspec.
So yeah, this might still be an issue.
You can't do anything but be upfront.
...if you aren't you will get a very bad rep for very obvious reasons.

[psychocrasha]

Despite what you check off at the start, when you accept a dungeon invite it specifies your role. If you accept that invite whichever role you selected IS your role for that dungeon. You should only be rolling on the dropds for that role as a matter of politeness.

That's with a caveat though. If you REALLY want a certain drop that's not part of your current role, announce it at the beginning of the instance and see what the person(s) playing that role think. If they're OK with it, no worries. If not, well you should have signed up as the role you want to play, not the one you know will get your a group faster.

Case in point: One of my first random dungeons on my warlock we had a Warrior tank in H-POS. HE was chain pulling WAY faster than anyone was uncomfortable with, and he skipped things several of us needed for the quests. He high-tailed it to Forgemaster, we killed him, the 2h hammer dropped. He rolled need against a DPS paladin (who was understandably upset) without saying a word. Once he won the role he went "Haha, bye suckers!" and dropped group.

Now, there's a lot of things wrong with that, but not being clear about his intentions was the start. If he has asked, the pally mgiht have been OK with him rolling. Or might have even said "I don't need it, go on."

I wouldn't think this is likely the case, but hypothetically, could he have rolled against the pally due to him thinking others in group sucking and not worthy of it (not saying that's right. I wouldn't do it.). Just to say you can't be sure that he had the intention coming in already know he wanted to roll on such and such items.

also look at it this way, if I go in as tank and there's X amount of clothies, a druid/shaman/pally/priest healer, and maybe 1 or 2 plate dps, if all agree but 1 plate dude disagrees I could role on dps gears, he should leave or wait for a vote kick, not because it is the right thing to do but it does mean he wouldn't want to be in the same group anyway. btw, I usually state I could leave instead of kicking or asking someone to leave.

[mavfin]

In random groups, if I want an item for any spec, whether it's offspec or mainspec, I roll need on it. To roll greed is to usually turn the item into a shard, which is no good to you at all if you wanted the item. Of course, if I'm rolling for mainspec, it's mine if I win the roll anyway. If offspec, I'll look at who else rolled for it, and trade it to them if they have a better claim on it.

Yes, I have traded a few items to other people after the roll, and when I said that I rolled need on it so that it wouldn't get sharded, no one made a fuss.

Rolling greed in a random dungeon is a good way to get nothing, and have nothing to ask someone to trade to you, because it's already sharded.

[Eisen]

If I'm in a group an an item for the role I'm not currently in drops, I ask anyone that might use it in the group if they mind if I roll. If dps plate drops and it's an up for my arms set, I will ask. And if they say no, or tell me they really need that item..then I pass. Its only fair. Esp since that's often their main spec.


And if you're not playing in your main spec when you join a group, you should be up front and say something. This amazes me. it's 3.3. With the DF we now have a HUGE pool of people to play with no matter when or what we play....and yet we seem less likely to communicate.