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Thread: Glove enchant for overall EH

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    Glove enchant for overall EH

    Lately, after feeling rather squishy compared to the Pally and Druid in my guild, i've been working on boosting my overall EH as much as I can, so along with working to getting the Pillars of Might crafted, I was looking at my glove enchant and wondering what IS the best Glove enchant for EH. I'm thinking either the 240 armor kit or the 18 stam, Is there that big of a difference between the two?

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    Well in general stamina is more favored than armor, due to the possibility of non-physical hits.
    But assuming that its pure physical damage, I'd say that armor pulls ahead a bit actually.

    There's actually a discussion going on about armor/stamina on elitistjerks right now.

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    On a pure physical fight 18 stamina and 240 armor are almost identical but 18 stam is always the better choice because the more unmitigable damage there is the less valuabe the armor is compared to the stamina.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krc View Post
    On a pure physical fight 18 stamina and 240 armor are almost identical but 18 stam is always the better choice because the more unmitigable damage there is the less valuabe the armor is compared to the stamina.
    Its safer to use stamina? Yes.
    But is it always the best choice? No, not necessarily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daxwax View Post
    There's actually a discussion going on about armor/stamina on elitistjerks right now.
    The short of that discussion seems to be that as a general rule of thumb, 10 armor =~ 1 stamina is fairly accurate. Obviously it depends on the encounter to some extent. Using that as a guide, the armor kit beats the enchant.

    I'm up to 35k unbuffed armour with all my +armor gear. I've never felt I had the ability to truely 'stack' armor before. I think this is a trend we'll see increase in cataclysm.

    I had a thought the other day, would be cool to allow people to socket armor. You could do it as 'armor gems', but I think it might add a bit more flavour if they were added as blacksmithing items (something like 'studs', 'rivets' or 'spikes'). Since they aren't gems, perhaps they could never match a socket bonus, making it an interesting choice whether or not to use a gem or a stud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daxwax View Post
    Its safer to use stamina? Yes.
    But is it always the best choice? No, not necessarily.
    Using the rough formula at N-EH on Maintankadin with on a pure physical 11 armor = 1 stamina, not exact but a little closer than the 10:1 rule. If you use this formula you end up with the armor worth around 21 stamina. With 10% magical burst 1 stamina is worth 13 armor making the glove reinforcments right on at 18 stamina.

    Once you get to 20% magical burst like Gormok since his bleed is umitigable 1 stamina = 14.62 armor making the 240 armor enchant worth around 16 stamina making the 18 stamina enchant better. So unless you are finding that one pure physical fight is so stressing to your healers and your tanks are dying so much that 3 stamina would make a difference the 18 stamina is the better all around choice.
    Last edited by krc; 01-13-2010 at 01:27 PM.

  7. #7
    I guess the big question is therefore what puts you in most danger from the fights you're working on now... magical or physical hits?
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    2 sets of gloves would be hawt, y/n? Take the badge gloves for one. Get 2 pairs, patch one with 18 stam, patch the other with armor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

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    Isn't there some form of DR on armor value? As in +240 armor at 29k armor gives a different % damage reduction than +240 armor at 35k?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drake View Post
    Isn't there some form of DR on armor value? As in +240 armor at 29k armor gives a different % damage reduction than +240 armor at 35k?
    Been a while since I've read up on armor, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
    200 armor at 30k armor gives you more damage reduction than 200 armor at 50k.
    So the stat obviously has diminishing returns like you say (point for point).

    The reason for this is that armor, like avoidance, gets more valuable the more you have of it.
    Think 20% to 21% reduction versus 80 - 81% reduction, the benefit of the latter is larger.
    Armor therefore has a DR to keep it from becoming more valuable as stacking progresses.
    BUT the armor yields the same increase to your expected time to live (TTL), even when at higher amounts.
    Last edited by Daxwax; 01-13-2010 at 08:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drake View Post
    Isn't there some form of DR on armor value? As in +240 armor at 29k armor gives a different % damage reduction than +240 armor at 35k?
    That depends on your point of view - I.e. whether you measure the %age gained in your total mitigation number, or the reduction of the damage you are taking. To use an extreme example, if you have 90% damage reduction from armor and get a big upgrade for an additional 1%... You may think to yourself that upgrade isn' worth much, since your DR only went from 90 to 91%.

    But look at it again from a 'damage received' point of view - A boss that hit you for 10k before had to do raw damage of 100k to get there. (90% of 100k = 10k that you actually eat.) By going to 91% damage reduction, the actual amount you eat is now 9k, instead of 10. So that measly 1% upgrade in your Damage Reduction number is actually worth 10% in terms of the amount you have to eat.

    A long explanation to set up the simpler statement - There are no diminishing returns on armor, but as a stat it's balanced in terms of what the player eats. Not the raw number. So the effect is that it takes a much larger armor number to achieve the same tooltip increase. But the more armor you have, the more valuable that increase is.

    Apologies for not having the aactual math - I'm sure someone else will be happy to oblige. In my defense, the keyboard on my cellphone here is small, and my thumbs are getting tired...

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    Scotteq, there ARE diminishing returns on the reduction from armor, but, like you stated, it's done like that because the goal is to linearize the damage intake per point or armor.
    It's some careful wording to watch for.

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    I think it's been re-hashed over and over about 4 or 5 times on this thread. Go take a look at Satrina's Evil Empire Guides, which is in the directory here on Tankspot. There's a segment on stamina and armor. Bottom line:
    Yes, the amount of damage reduction-per-point of armor is less the more armor you have, but your overall time to live is linear and doesn't diminish. So there are diminishing returns on armor but not on your effective health.

    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f63/
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    2 sets of gloves would be hawt, y/n? Take the badge gloves for one. Get 2 pairs, patch one with 18 stam, patch the other with armor.
    With our current glove selection it isn't really worth doing that, if you were wearing the badge gloves with the armor enchant you would have 898 armor more and equal stamina to the closest piece in EH for 25 man normal ICC Taldaram's Plated Fists - Item - World of Warcraft.

    Even if you were to reach a unrealistic point in current content with 70% of the burst killing you unmitigable the armor would still be worth 5 more stamina than the 18 stamina glove enchant you would be putting on the ICC 25 gloves.
    Last edited by krc; 01-13-2010 at 02:14 PM.

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    I'm talking about 2 pairs of the same gloves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

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    I prefer +240 Armor, because even though it is not going to effect magic damage, you never die to just magic damage. Its a combination of a physical hit intersecting with magic damage.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodasafa View Post
    I prefer +240 Armor, because even though it is not going to effect magic damage, you never die to just magic damage. Its a combination of a physical hit intersecting with magic damage.
    Here's the thing though, the more magic damage there is even though it is mixed in with physical damage the armor becomes less valuable even though you didn't die to complete magic damage. Maintankadin • View topic - "New" EH - incorporating different damage types into EH shows how armor loses value through the percent of magic damage mixed in with physical. Many bosses have small percentages of umitigable damage that you won't notice but greatly affect the value of armor, the bleed on Gormok in his Melee, Impale, Bleed combo which does 20% of the damage makes 1 stam = 11 armor to 1 stam = 14.62 armor.

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