Problems with Threat...

[jimboa25]

Hi, here is my armory link:

The World of Warcraft Armory

I've been having problems holding threat. I primarily tank heroics, and I can take a beating just fine, but these days in heroics, no one single-targets anything except bosses and single pulls and some of the people I tank for have much better gear than mine. As a result, I can't seem to hold threat. I've tried two main speccs - Blood and DW Frost. When I'm in Blood specc, I have no problems whatsoever holding threat on a single target, but when it comes to group pulls, I completely suck and someone always manages to pull threat on me. When I'm DW Frost specc, I have no trouble at all with group pulls, but when it's just one target (like a boss), I have major issues maintaining threat.

Is it my gear? I've followed the rotation guides in the main post on tank spot on DK tanking, so I should be getting my rotation right. The only difference for me is when I'm blood specc I simply can't avoid having to use DnD - even sometimes when I'm frost I end up having to use DnD for the group pulls.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

[Selene]

Why did you socket for Crit?!?
If you are going to socket for a Yellow Socket, Hit Rating or Defense should be the only two stats you socket for.

The "acceptable" chest enchant for a Tank is 275 Health or the Defense Enchant not stats especially +8 stats.

Need to get Expertise up to 26. It could be the expertise or the combination of low hit rating and expertise that allow people to pull off of you.

What are your rotations? Single Target and AoE?

What are you doing on a single target?
With very few exceptions I have never had a dps pull off of me with a single target, even in a 25 man raid with some dps doing over 6k damage.

[jimboa25]

Why did you socket for Crit?!?
If you are going to socket for a Yellow Socket, Hit Rating or Defense should be the only two stats you socket for.

The "acceptable" chest enchant for a Tank is 275 Health or the Defense Enchant not stats especially +8 stats.

I guess I got some bad advice. I asked a blood specc tank in one of my server's major raiding guilds what I should socket for if I'm defense capped and he told me either hit or crit, but he gems for crit. Also, he advised me on the +stats.

What are your rotations? Single Target and AoE?

What are you doing on a single target?
With very few exceptions I have never had a dps pull off of me with a single target, even in a 25 man raid with some dps doing over 6k damage.

I typically open with Icy Touch and Plague strike, then Obliterate immediately after. By then Rune Strike is usually up, so I hit that, then use it again (it proccs often), followed by two Obliterates. If Rime is up, I use that. From then on I don't bother with Plague Strike and just focus on keeping at least frost fever on the target. Rinse and repeat.

That's my single target for DW frost.

For AOE pulls while I'm blood specc, I use DnD, then put FF and BP one a target, then pestilence to disease them all. I then wait till my runes are up, death strike once, then heart strike one of my targets, trying to make sure all targets keep their diseases on them.

[ForgottenSlayer]

Anyways you need to fix that crit gem for sure

holding AoE aggro as blood is abit more diffcult than frost but what i do is i run in and drop DnD then do an icy touch then a ps strike then pestlience make sure you have both glphys buffing this or its kinda uneffective and one of them is a minor and its useful! but this normally holds everything if everyone is aoeing however if you have a strong single target dpser in there smacking what your not smacking they can pull off you what i do is i tab target like a man on crack hs striking everything that moves its more work but i'll be damned if anyone can pull off me .... unless its one of my guilded dps they just pull off me like its there job

[Vittorio]

The World of Warcraft Armory

Check out my spec for blood tanking. For your rotation you should have /runestrike bound to every attack. This should take care of most of your threat issues, even though you have only one AoE.
Also for your rotation you should be opening with IT, PS, PEST (mobs only) DS, HS HS HS, rune dump repeat... or open with DnD and hit IT, PS, DS, HS, rune dump repeat.

But using Runestrike as much as possible generates all the threat you'll need bro.

[Selene]

First off I will admit I'm a very lazy tank when it comes to rotation, I use a macro.

I use the following Rotation for single target.

Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Blood Strike, Blood Strike, Obliterate, Frost Strike, Obliterate, Frost Strike, Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Horn of Winter, Frost Strike

Using Runestrikes as it is up.

I use the following Rotation for AoE.

Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Pestilence, Blood Boil, Howling Blast, Frost Strike, Obliterate, Frost Strike, Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Frost Strike, Horn of Winter, Frost Strike

Forgot to check your Spec/Glyphs, you need to do a few changes there.

Get out of Mobidity, that is useless for a Frost Tank.
As a general rule Death & Decay is only an opening move for us or to use as needed. There is no point to spec or glyph for it.

Virulence is a better place to put those 3 points.

Hungering Cold is a debatable Talent, some advocate it, other don't.
I personally have never used it, so can't really comment on it. I know alot of "standard" tank builds don't use it though.

For Glyphs:
Obliterate, Frost Strike and Icy Touch are for the most part the Bread and Butter for Frost.
Some people might argue for other glyphs.
Obliterate and Icy Touch are two attacks you are going to use alot. So might as well maximize what they do.
Frost Strike imo is better to glyph for than Rune Strike because you can ALWAYS Frost Strike, but Rune Strike has conditionals on when you can use it.

[ForgottenSlayer]

Vittorio why improved icy touch?

[Vittorio]

Depends on if you're a raid tank or just heroics. I switched to blood after frost 2h became a threat issue in Raids...plus like Assassination rogues > Combat rogues in raids it's better to be specced for Single Target dmg anyway. Also make sure your expertise is at least soft capped at 26 (for a Death Knight). Will help your aggro.

[Vittorio]

Vittorio why improved icy touch?

Ah I copied the #1 blood tank's spec on server from Halcyon. I guess I don't know why other than that /cowers....haha
What would you suggest instead of 3 pts there?

[ForgottenSlayer]

i suggest putting them into ravenous dead

i icy touch once on boss fights unless i get sloppy and it drops normally once is all you need and the 3% increase to strenght is an aggro boast and a avoidance boast

[jimboa25]

i suggest putting them into ravenous dead

i icy touch once on boss fights unless i get sloppy and it drops normally once is all you need and the 3% increase to strenght is an aggro boast and a avoidance boast

Well, Imp Icy Touch reduces the attack speed of anything infected with frost fever, so with the howling blast glyph and when used on groups, this can help a lot in reducing the amount of damage taken.

[Voodan]

Ah I copied the #1 blood tank's spec on server from Halcyon. I guess I don't know why other than that /cowers....haha
What would you suggest instead of 3 pts there?

This is to ensure maximum physical dmg mitigation debuffs up on all mobs attacking you. Unless you can guarentee a demo shout/roar up 100% of the time on all mobs attacking you (which you generally cannot in many raid situations since rarely will you be tanking the same mob as another tank in the same location with the exception of tank swap fights) you should have this talent.

[ForgottenSlayer]

i hadn't looked at it that way i guess i was being dumb

[cheesedanish]

You are below the expertise soft-cap (26 expertise skill, not rating) and the hit cap.
Additionally, you are using 2 fast wpns... DW frost tanking is best w/ 2 slow wpns.
Socketing for crit or str won't help w/ threat as much as socketing for expertise or hit will.

Try to get to the expertise & hit soft-caps and get a hold of at least 1 slow wpn for your mainhand and you'll notice your TPS slowly start to increase.
Also, bind runestrike to all your abilities... ALL of em! Yes, even pestilence. Try to spec into Chill of the Grave or Scent of Blood so you get more RP (to spam more RS's with).

Here's what I'm running currently and it seems to be good for single-target TPS: 11/53/7. Try to blow the KM procs on Howling Blasts if possible. I'm also using the glyph of Disease so my Pest refreshes my FF & BP and I don't accidentally blow a KM proc on IT.

Good luck.

[Jaeden]

Indeed. increase your expertise to 26. Don't worry about hit unless you tank hard modes and don't want to glyph for it.

Cheesedanish's spec is good, but I'd take his point out of hungering cold and put it into scent of blood. I don't like the disease glyph and other glyphs can give you more bang for the buck imo.

Since you are at the cap and your weapons provide defense anyway, I'd change the enchants to parry. Some straight up avoidance is nice, though if you are going to go fast tank weapons instead of the "better" slow dps ones, you should get one with armor on it, it's nice.

[cheesedanish]

Cheesedanish's spec is good, but I'd take his point out of hungering cold and put it into scent of blood. I don't like the disease glyph and other glyphs can give you more bang for the buck imo.

I'll admit, HC is more of a guilty pleasure for the occasional pvp or 5man's but yeah, it isn't needed from a raid tank perspective.

As for the disease glyph, it allows me 1 extra oblit per cycle as I don't have to blow the FU on IT/PS after the very first one but this is more a personal preference w/ rotations/cycles. Your actual mileage may very.

[Dethjonson]

Well, Imp Icy Touch reduces the attack speed of anything infected with frost fever, so with the howling blast glyph and when used on groups, this can help a lot in reducing the amount of damage taken.

IIT just increases melee haste- the raids by 20% for next 20 secs and yours for 5% continuosly. Note that doesn't help your spellcasters only your melee dps. I would wonder if this would stack with other DKs in the raid? Anyone?

[cheesedanish]

I would wonder if this would stack with other DKs in the raid? Anyone?

Negative.

[jimboa25]

IIT just increases melee haste- the raids by 20% for next 20 secs and yours for 5% continuosly. Note that doesn't help your spellcasters only your melee dps. I would wonder if this would stack with other DKs in the raid? Anyone?

No, it doesn't. There are three components to the Icy Touch specc. The first talent is Improved Icy Touch. It requires 3 points and increases IT's damage by 15% and slows anything infected with frost fever's melee haste by 6%. The next part of the IT specc is ICY TALONS, and that increases your melee haste by 20%. After that is Improved Icy Talons, and that buffs the raid.

All I'm talking about is the first part, which is improved icy touch. I'm not talking about icy talons.