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Thread: Noob Question for Tanks-

  1. #1
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    Noob Question for Tanks-

    I am new to tanking, so take this post for what its worth in that light (this is my second post on this site - I think).

    I just signed on with a new guild who lost its OT a few weeks ago. I was asked to be an OT in one of their ten man raids, which was really exciting in light of the fact that I enjoy the end-game content immensely.

    On raid night, I sign on, get my pots and stuff ready and wait for invite. Shortly after accepting the invite and zoning in, the GM asks me to be ready to let his MT, who had solid gear - have the tanking gear () because she is the guild's MT and "we need to make sure she is geared for later content."

    My question: Is this normal? None of the other toons played under that 'rule.' I guess the reason I am asking is this: How then, am I to gear? Is this the way most raiding guilds work? If the raid falls apart - like several I have seen in the short amount of time that I have been in the guild, and I no longer get to get in those encounters, then I feel like a chump for aggreeing to the GM's request. Any thoughts?
    Thanx in advance!!

  2. #2
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    I've not really encountered the "MT Gear" priority system for years, it seems a little outdated considering the vast majority of encounters can put equal pressure on your 2nd tank's gear.

  3. #3
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    Well to be fair they should have let you know about that little caveat in the loot rules before inviting you in. That said, I'd start finding out what loot rules are prior to raiding with/joining a guild. At this point in the game, main tank gearing is sort of a joke, because a good percentage of the fights in Icecrown require both or all 3 tanks to tank the same boss. Why give one priority over the other?

    For example in my guild I am both MT and GM, yet I'd never default loot to myself just because of that. My second tank is just as worthy and even if he's less experienced he's learning and willing to learn. I have no problem losing a roll or passing loot to him over myself anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  4. #4
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    That's so....utterly BC. I haven't seen something like that since I was raiding SSC.

    It's also a good way to lose OTs. Going to raids every week knowing you can't get gear no matter what starts to grind on you after a bit.

    And as Dread said, it's kinda a think of the past. Current fight mechanics have OTs and MTs getting hit almost equally hard.

  5. #5
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    We have a policy in guild that trial members only get loot if noone member-rank or raider-rank wants it.

    This is because we want loot to help our forward and if it's not sure someone will become member/raider we don't want to waste gear on hem. This is evened out by the fact that they do earn dkp while being trial.

    Second: does the guild have a 25 man raid going? We basically run with 2 tanks in 25 man and a few good tank-geared offspec needing to step up when needed. But in 10 man we both run in different groups but still if someone is a big upgrade it still goes to me in that group, wasn't even discussed but it just goes that way. On the other hand, we often have mixed groups where I often join on an alt or so, but I always pass items if they're an upgrae to someone who raids on the main.

  6. #6
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    That's a garbage rule, I'd walk. We run serveral 10s a week and the 10s are roll for loot, and the 25s are dkp. Everyone has equal chance in the 10s, they gear us for 25s basically.

  7. #7
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    I agree with the above posts as a OT for my guild but main tank for 10 mans, i want the best gear just as much as the MT and other pally off tank. we all look at our gear and kind choose who it goes to unless is a great upgrade for all then its dkp in 25 mans. In 10's me and the MT role together so its much the same except we /roll when we both want an item. Only time ive seen that tank gearing rule come into play is on tier tokens when 3-4 people all have the dkp but most pass for the tanks knowing that a geared tank = staying alive

    my 2 cents

  8. #8
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    If you accept, ask if they are willing to pay your repair bills from raiding. If they refuse, I would leave and find a better guild.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by patricdj View Post
    I just signed on with a new guild who lost its OT a few weeks ago.
    ...and now you know why they lost their OT.

    As others have said already, you need all your tanks to be geared. The more evenly, the better. And so what if one tank in particular is usually tanking the boss (in fights where only one is needed)? What if that tank goes down? If that was the only well-geared tank, the raid is boned. :P

    What if the tank leaves the guild, takes a break, or quits playing?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bashal View Post
    ...and now you know why they lost their OT.

    As others have said already, you need all your tanks to be geared. The more evenly, the better. And so what if one tank in particular is usually tanking the boss (in fights where only one is needed)? What if that tank goes down? If that was the only well-geared tank, the raid is boned. :P

    What if the tank leaves the guild, takes a break, or quits playing?
    We have had this whole "MT" discussion. I believe this boils down to you are new and they did not want you taking a couple of drops and the /gquit to a MT roll in another guild. However, I would have myself a long talk with the GM and the MT and see if they are serious about keeping you in the tanking role. Also, are they moving into 25Man content? A second 10man? Or are you the newest edition to a "clique" guild? Things to think about. If you are skilled and ready, let them know and see what response you get.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banterloft View Post
    ...you are new and they did not want you taking a couple of drops and the /gquit to a MT roll in another guild.
    A valid point, and one our guild considers as well, but that wasn't the reason given.

  12. #12
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    It sounds to me like this Guild is one that is struggling to either continue raiding, in general, or has not done much raiding, in the past. Therefore, they are trying to "gear up" their MT, as a foundation to get some regular runs going.

    Since you are new to tanking, and to this group, I don't think it's out of line for them to want to evaluate your skills, and how you interact with them. For now, I'd simply be happy, in the knowledge that you have a shot. After a while, if things are looking good, I'd start discussing with the officers on how they could help you gear up. That would be the time to make the points others in this thread have been making, in my opinion.

    In the meantime, I'd ask them to join in on some randoms with you, for badge runs, and to get experience playing with them...

    And, remember...they are evaluating you, but that's a two-way street...
    -"Just like a buzzin' fly, I come into your life, I'll float away, like honey in the sun..."--Tim Buckley

  13. #13
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    Thanks...

    Thanks for the excellent replies! I appreciate it. I have decided he is not completely out of line. If after a couple weeks, if this rule is still in place, I'll bolt. The reason behind the original post is my frustration with being told to gear up, but (after getting most of the triumph gear plus one frost piece and some drops from ToC) not being allowed to roll for said gear.
    We'll see how it goes.
    Happy tanking guys!

  14. #14
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    Ridiculous attitude. It's been a long time since there was a main tank on any fight that required two tanks. By refusing to let you take any gear, they are directly reducing their chances of successfully completing encounters, assuming that what drops is a bigger upgrade for you than the other tank. If it were me I would try to explain this to them. If they still refuse, they clearly don't understand fights properly and I'd look for another guild.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bashal View Post
    A valid point, and one our guild considers as well, but that wasn't the reason given.
    Either way, any reasoning, this should have been discussed with you prior to raid night. The fact is that they knew he had consumables and has put time into getting ready for this raid. I would hope this didn't come from a last minute "Premadonna" moment from the standing tank about a single gear drop they have been waiting on but you never know. Simply put, this should have been talked about prior to you spending your time and money.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by patricdj View Post
    Thanks for the excellent replies! I appreciate it. I have decided he is not completely out of line. If after a couple weeks, if this rule is still in place, I'll bolt. The reason behind the original post is my frustration with being told to gear up, but (after getting most of the triumph gear plus one frost piece and some drops from ToC) not being allowed to roll for said gear.
    We'll see how it goes.
    Happy tanking guys!
    I didn't realise that you had spent time gearing up with badges, at their behest. If this is the case, then you've been with them for a few weeks, at least. I must confess, my "spidey sense" is tingling, a bit, now.

    At any rate, give them a couple of weeks, as you say...(one eyebrow raised)

    Good luck!!
    -"Just like a buzzin' fly, I come into your life, I'll float away, like honey in the sun..."--Tim Buckley

  17. #17
    You'll find a lot of guilds that have a largely misplaced attitude of making people "pay their dues" before they're allowed to reap any rewards from their work.

    Granted, when guilds had to farm keys and flags and such to even get into raid instances, it was understandable that they expected people to "pay their dues" and not just be able to jump into their raids out of the blue.

    But when some guild is doing ToC normal modes and some ICC 10-25 and they expect people to come in, pass on any loot for weeks/months, not accumulate DKP at all, and other such silly considerations when they're basically farming puggable content...I'd just look elsewhere for a guild that appreciates your time and effort a little more.

    I look at it this way...you need a guild, but they need you too. If they need a tank and they're bringing you in to tank raids for them, then it's a mutually beneficial relationship. You're doing your job, they need you, they wouldn't be clearing the content without you, so you deserve to reap the rewards of your effort the same as anyone else...whether that means you accumulate DKP or get the opportunity to roll on items.

  18. #18
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    I do agree with this in some form. I think this week you should pug into raids and when they come knocking because they need their OT, well your saved. Your simple response should be..."I need to gear. I had to pug."
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

  19. #19
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    Now, I'll agree with several people in here that many progression guilds don't let brand new members loot until they've proved themselves. That's fair. no one likes a grab and gquit raider. But that wasn't the context here. The guild basically said "We want our MT to get everything to get geared." That's foolish. Many LK encounters (esp the new 3.3 ones) require both tanks to work equally hard and get hit equally hard. Let one tank get all the gear and see how long the raid lasts when the other tank drops.

  20. #20
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    I don't think I've ever asked the OP. Which raid was this? ICC? TOGC?
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

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