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Thread: Papertank?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Louisiana
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    First, guilds will choose the tanks they trust. It ultimately comes down to player ability and your teams' trust in you. No tank class is losing his job over another; they're separated foremost by player skill (like any class.) I've tanked for over 4 years now on my Warrior and those who know me stand by the effectiveness of a well-played Prot Warrior. I rarely hear "prot wars are squishy" in my guild.

    Here are a few quotes from an old thread I think are still relevant today.

    "Many players who are good at theorycrafting - or who are just plain paranoid (is there any difference lol) place far too much importance in their conclusions, and far too little faith in the game designers. This cycle goes and comes over and over again, and while people argue theoretic "what ifs", in practice, guilds - as you say - do not dump their best players for a flavor of the month spec. Flavor of the month, btw, being determined largely by a few vocal posters on the official forums. There are so many similar lines of argument from days gone by. And the worst doom and gloom is always before anyone has actually tried out the content in live. And when the content is released and everything turns out fine... no apologies, no "sorry for jumping the gun". Those same people just find something else to get down about." - Danteus

    "I will not lose my (tanking) spot come patch. That whole skill, experience, guildie trust, leadership, etc. factor is kind of big. I can see a lot of bad (tanks) losing their jobs. But good tanks won't." - Makapuu
    "Humility doesn't remove the crown from your head - it shows why you deserve to wear one."

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Decked out as a paladin tank in ToGC25 and ICC gear, I still feel a lot squishier than a couple warrior tanks I know. In fact, their additional cooldowns and paticular quick action moves make me envious! Not to mention additional hit points...

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    361
    Let me guess your warriors are Tauren. Looking at talents Warriors only get 6% stam modifier from Vitality Paladins get 8% from Sacred duty and 6% from combat expertise. Warriors do get one more cooldown but thats offset by one of ours being on autopilot. Paladins have Holy Shield, Divine Protection (Bubble Wall) and Ardent Defender (1 more stand). Warriors have Shield Block, Shield Wall, Last Stand, Enraged Regenaration. It really comes down to trinket/cooldown management or your other tank has a stronger healer. Personally i would like a prot talent to let us be able to use lay on hands on ourselves with no penalty but i doubt that will happen.

  4. #24
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    I know Enraged Regeneration is an alright CD in itself, but to me I never mention it when comparing CD's or w/e. Why? Cuz I use a macro that uses Last Stand and ER at the same time.

    Reason being is ER in itself won't save you with it's HoT (using a CD typically means you're in trouble eh?) so that's why I couple it with LS. Am I wrong for doing this? I'm actually LF a reason not to, so if you have good reasons do tell!
    "Humility doesn't remove the crown from your head - it shows why you deserve to wear one."

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Most people do what you do and thats perfectly correct but you can't deny that they are two separate abilities. Having them be separate gives you flexibility with them. Don't take it for granted us Pallies dont get that ability.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    2,954
    and warriors don't get lay on hands :P


    but when comparing CDs the actual CDs warriors/paladins have is immaterial the main difference is how our CDs are structured, a warrior can chain his, or pop 2 at the same time for added value, Pallies can't do that. ever. they get 1 cd every 2mins (or 90secsonds with t9 4pc). warriors do have flexibility, and that does make up for ER being a little weak on its own.

    i will almost always blow it with LS, only burning it on its own if a tree is brezzing, just to lighten the healing load

  7. #27
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    Nov 2009
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    Not that it matters, 99% of the time you will use Divine Protection over Lay on Hands. I usually blow my lay on hands to save a healer or if the mt takes a big nose dive in hp.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    1,105
    The short answer is that survivability across tank classes is the closest is has been since the game shipped. They have been careful not to let warriors end up on the high side to make sure they didn't reinforce the BC idea that warriors are "the" boss tanks, and for a while in Ulduar that meant warriors (and at the time Pallies) where clearly at the bottom of survivability, but even then warriors and paladins tanked every encounter, there was just less margin for error.

    The survivability delta is much smaller than normal gear choice differences, skill on using rotations or avoiding fire, etc makes up, so if a raid thinks it can't make it with one class that is so slightly less survivable, then there are really only a couple options:

    1) Your raid leader is thinking via urban legends and needs to learn what the situation really is (most likely IMO).

    2) Talent or gear is distributed in a way to make it seem that way (i.e. a skilled and well-geared pally certainly is more survivable than a warrior with lesser or more poorly chosen gear, or with less skill)

    3) Your raids are totally being carried on a knifes edge by your tanks, so even very small differences make or break an encounter. In this case your DPS and healers need to learn their roles better so there isn't such a small margin or error. I think this happens a bit more than the devs would let on (with casual raiding guilds, for example) but it's still by far the least common option.

    In short, you aren't a paper tank. Make sure you're doing the best you can with you gear, your skill, and your knowledge of the encounters, and beyond that it's just overcoming your raid leaders misconception.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    1
    Warrior is most dead tank in game way less geared pallys out live us,by far,and everyone knows it!Most people dont even want a warrior in the raid they no hes going to die

  10. #30
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stengel View Post
    Compared to the non-paper tank classes it just takes some more work to be able to do them without feling overly squishy.
    fixed

  11. #31
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    Jul 2007
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    Queens, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by viperviper View Post
    Warrior is most dead tank in game way less geared pallys out live us,by far,and everyone knows it!Most people dont even want a warrior in the raid they no hes going to die
    This is about as helpful a post as me saying how dumb your statement is.
    The Raid - A feature length documentary following the lives of a group of virtual raiders.


  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    16,428
    All tanks are viable, I'm sorry to say this bur seriously, these threads are annoying, learn 2 play.

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