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Thread: Armor bonuses over avoidance in icc?

  1. #61
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    Not sure that's a great example though. The Armor mitigates a lot more damage (2-3 times) than the burst reduction over time.

    So, the more fair comparison to Last Stand would be if I wanted to trade 2-3 times the average Last Stand burst in passive health instead of having the cooldown.

    Well... I think most people would take the 4.5-5k extra passive health over Last Stand as a cooldown on most fights--and swap back to Last Stand on the fights where some mechanic required you to have the burst health for some reason.

    Unless there's some fight where you have to take some big, massive, unsurvivable single hit with that extra 20% EH every 60s, the set bonus doesn't have too much going for it compared to having better larger EH and better damage reduction via Armor.

    I'm sure most will carry around the 2 requisite pieces in their bags for that one fight, though.
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  2. #62
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    1k health over time is going to be more EH than last stand given a 3 minute fight. The question is whether or not it's worth the burst. Now, that's tougher given something like health, which is more TTL based, so we'll go with something more similar: would you trade shield wall for 8k armor?

    Given the option to prioritize between one or the other, which do you think would be more valuable in learning a fight?

    I've always thought that cooldowns have been crucial to fights, and armor has been good but not great (especially given how much non-armor related damage is out there). But again, different perspective I suppose.

  3. #63
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    I actually think I would take 8k armor over shield wall, but it would depend on the fight. If it was like gormok or if I was the one having to survive the big bang on algalon, then yes shield wall is obviously a necessity, same with steelbreaker, festergut, etc. But that's a much much larger damage reduction. 20% EH is about half a hit from the harder hitting bosses (seeing 25k even with 36k+ armor raid buffed seems to be a common amount on harder hitting bosses), but that's only one hit. That is no where near as good as shield wall. I also think I'd take 4.5k passive health over last stand, but again it would be fight dependent. That's why ever since we were first discussing this I've advocated going with offset pieces first before tier, that way once all the bosses are out and you're raking in the badges, it's easier to pick up tier tokens and allows the other classes on your token to pick up their gear (which is better for them than it is for prot warriors at least) first.
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  4. #64
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    That is no where near as good as shield wall.
    But 4k armor isn't as good as 8k armor either.

    Put it this way: 12k absorption can be much, much better than 12% damage reduction over a period of time depending on the damage intake. Even against something like Festergut, it takes him hitting you 4 times with a 12% decrease in damage taken than it would for that 12k absorption to work, and that 12k absorb is much better when worrying about a specific burst.

    In theory the earliest you can get your 4p is two weeks from now, give or take a couple dailies. In theory the earliest you can work on hard modes is 3 weeks from now - and remember, hard modes are going to be mutually exclusive with normals, so if you're working on a hard mode you can't get the badges from the normal (unlike ToC for example). Are you still saying you'd rather not have the cooldown, knowing what we do about the current fights?

  5. #65
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    Yes.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
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  6. #66
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    Gear choices are going to become more interesting in Cataclysm when Defense drops off the table, I think... then you may actually have to choose between 5000 armor and 500 stamina or 3500 armor, 350 Stamina, and 200 Dodge...

    Sorry, that was off-topic... since I'm realistically not looking at Hard modes any time in the near future, if ever before Cataclysm hits, I'm still debating getting the tier pieces first (4-piece + offset chest, anyway)... true the armor on the others is better, but the avoidance shield looks like it might be more fun, and the 251 or 264 versions of the T10 should be plenty for normal mode survival... ;-)

    Plus, all things considered, I'd basically only be foregoing the bonus armor on Pillars of Might (which is crafted, and thus could either be produced with TONS of Frost Emblems or none) and the Gauntlets of the Kraken... hmm... (which is a lot of bonus armor, but you have to take into account the availability of certain items when charting your own gear path).
    Last edited by Eravian; 01-15-2010 at 02:03 PM.

  7. #67
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    Rather than continually editing my above post, I'll merely apologize for the double post and say that while the offset pieces are, all in all, better itemized than the Tier pieces and are the best route for min/maxing, always make sure you take into account what you can realistically expect to achieve.

    For many players, you're simply going to suffer if you say "Well, Tankspot said the Heroic version of item x is better than this one, so I'll pass." If you're not going to be running Hard Mode, you just made a fail move.

    I think the same is true for any gearing situation. Look first at where YOU are, and then decide what gear path you'd like to follow. For example, my guild is currently working on 10-man Saurfang, and have had great trouble as of late getting together a full 25-person run. This means, realistically, I have to conclude that many offset pieces, particularly 25-man boss drops, may not come my way. I'm also broke nearly all the time... this means that the Pillars of Might are going to require a lot of Frost Emblems on my part... for the cost of one Pillars of Might, I could buy nearly the entire t10 set...

    Now, this isn't really aimed at the other posters in this thread, but rather to YOU, the reader calmly browsing looking for gear advice. The offset pieces are likely going to make the best min/max'd EH set, and EH is likely the best way to gear for most encounters (I said "likely," don't flame me :-) ). Just make sure when you see these recommendations, that you take into account where you are at and what, realistically, you hope to accomplish with your gear (i.e - if you only raid 10-man, don't be hoping for loot drops from the 25-mode). There will (generally) always be improvements that can be made, but what steps should you be taking right now?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    Well, as far as reading goes, I did say, "despite the comments that you wouldn't be able to, people on PTR were still able to."

    Suppose they will fix it if it's still doable, though.

    BTW, Edgewalker... your avoidance set fails--you should gem Parry gems. (I was only able to make a set that was around 62% avoidance + 81% block in ICC... QQ... my dreams are shattered now! Although it would be kinda amusing in TotC with 82% avoidance + 100% block and 2.3k BV or so. Get to around 97% Mitigation or something retarded outside of ICC.)
    I thought about that, but then decided I didn't even feel like looking at the cutoff point for DK's at that gear level and just went all subtle rubies instead. It would be an interesting set to make a few months down the road when 277 is rotting everywhere.

  9. #69
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    It is REALLY hard to reach the point for a DK where Parry gems will get you more.

    We get SO much parry rating from the default levels of Strength on gear.

    I'm looking forward to a couple months down the line too, with gear and Frost Emblems to spare.
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