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Thread: Armor bonuses over avoidance in icc?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liar View Post
    You might as well keep the armor offset pieces on and only switch in the stamina trinkets because the bonus armor pieces don't trade Stamina for Armor but Avoidance for Armor (except for the 251 bracers anyway).
    Right, trying to spark some discussion on exactly what the hell the bonus would be used for though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  2. #22
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    Sindragosa, last I checked, applies a debuff in her final phase that reduces the tank's dodge chance (And stacks with chill of the throne) so you'd certainly see value from the bonus armour in mitigating the enormous incoming physical damage.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    Sindragosa, last I checked, applies a debuff in her final phase that reduces the tank's dodge chance (And stacks with chill of the throne) so you'd certainly see value from the bonus armour in mitigating the enormous incoming physical damage.
    Ok, so not Sindragosa, another boss, perhaps with emphasis on breath or dots or anything? I mean that 4pc has to be good for something, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  4. #24
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    I have to say the tank gearing follows weird trends in this addon.
    We get showered in avoid.
    We get showered in expertise.
    We get showered in strength.
    We get showered in hit.
    We get showered in +armor.

    Every content patch up to now has followed some extreme trend. the newest fad seems to be massive +armor. Been there, bought the trinket. I just wonder how the heck I'm supposed to keep the balance between those stats without resorting to gear 2 content patches ago.
    I think the Black Heart having beome the most widely used tanking trinket is a clear sign. I'll be damned if I knew what for, tho.
    This has become beyond confusing. What good exactly is a 3k absorb every couple of minutes? I like the stam. I suspect the absorb is useful. I simply don't know when to use it.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
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    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mačl View Post
    I have to say the tank gearing follows weird trends in this addon.
    We get showered in avoid.
    We get showered in expertise.
    We get showered in strength.
    We get showered in hit.
    We get showered in +armor.

    Every content patch up to now has followed some extreme trend. the newest fad seems to be massive +armor. Been there, bought the trinket. I just wonder how the heck I'm supposed to keep the balance between those stats without resorting to gear 2 content patches ago.
    I think the Black Heart having beome the most widely used tanking trinket is a clear sign. I'll be damned if I knew what for, tho.
    This has become beyond confusing. What good exactly is a 3k absorb every couple of minutes? I like the stam. I suspect the absorb is useful. I simply don't know when to use it.

    The black heart is more than likely just there to be a power trinket for people who don't have access to better, which it is. Ilevel 200 and available in a non-heroic 5 man says it all. Aside from the expertise/hit though, we're showered in HP, avoidance and STR across all of the content patches, with increased bonus armor being offered only now. I think it's safe to omit HP, strength and avoidance from the list.

    -Showered in Expertise with BiS 226 from Maly, Naxx, Sarth
    -Expertise all but removed and replaced with too much hit in Ulduar
    -1 BiS item with hit in TOC, rest Expertise
    -Bonus armor falling from every orifice in ICC, with what seems like marginal levels of expertise and hit. Similar levels of HP, str, and avoidance but nothing incredible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  6. #26
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    You mean they may be intending for you to mix and match from icky previous tier gear? Perish the thought!
    Got a question? Try here: Evil Empire Guides and here: Tankspot Guides and Articles Library first!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Ok, so not Sindragosa, another boss, perhaps with emphasis on breath or dots or anything? I mean that 4pc has to be good for something, right?
    What has Blizzard ever done in the past that gives you that idea?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    What has Blizzard ever done in the past that gives you that idea?
    Tier 7, 8 and 9 4pc bonuses did have their places. I used 4pc tier 7 on sarth 3d, extending the length shield wall was up. That was a fight I didn't need to use my Legplates of Sovereignty or Pauldrons of Unnatural Death on for the added expertise. Having the raid learn that fight and as healing-intensive as it was when it was the hardest fight in the game at the time, having those 3 extra seconds was a godsend.

    Tier 8 4pc = godlike for Mimiron, making it easier on using external cooldowns so every guild wouldn't be pidgeon-holed into using a DK tank like they seemed to like doing to us early on. Granted, take the player not the class, sure, but in many situations you can count where that just isn't optimal (case in point, Razuvious 25 man).

    Tier 9 4pc was just useful for increasing overall DPS if nothing else and adding some extra mitigation. Not gamebreaking by any means at all, but definitely handy.

    Tier 10 just doesn't sport anything useful on the 4 piece. The amount of health lost by using bloodrage is trivial at best, and we're looking at a ~12k absorb once a minute. You could chain that once every minute to negate perhaps 50k damage or so across the length of a fight, but really, you take that in 2 melee hits on some bosses.

    What I'm getting at was in the past the bonus at least had a use somewhere, or was just handy, like T9. Tier 10 just seems like a waste and definitely not a good enough reason to place those set items higher on the badge prio list than any of the other badge items, save for the trinket if you have Satrina's, Glyph and/or Unidentifiable Organ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  9. #29
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    Sindragosa, last I checked, applies a debuff in her final phase that reduces the tank's dodge chance (And stacks with chill of the throne) so you'd certainly see value from the bonus armour in mitigating the enormous incoming physical damage.
    The debuff can be immediately cleansed off the tank (and should be). There's no reason to keep it up.

    The physical damage in the final phase is nothing compared to the damage you take from Mystic Buffet - Spell - World of Warcraft - this is the stacking debuff that keeps going at 30%. Otherwise most of the scary damage is frost-based, not physical based.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by felhoof View Post
    The debuff can be immediately cleansed off the tank (and should be). There's no reason to keep it up.

    The physical damage in the final phase is nothing compared to the damage you take from Mystic Buffet - Spell - World of Warcraft - this is the stacking debuff that keeps going at 30%. Otherwise most of the scary damage is frost-based, not physical based.
    So would you say a 12k absorb every minute would assist with this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  11. #31
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    It's certainly going to be better than armor; it should absorb at least a few ticks. Though it's mostly raid damage that's going to pwn you there.

    It'd also help on the breaths, since you can pretty much have it up every phase transition for one of them.

  12. #32
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    You have to consider in over all damage that 1% damage reduction in armor = 1% avoidance in the grand scheme of things but it's easier to heal the 1% dr in armor because the damage becomes less spiky.

  13. #33
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    You wanna know a gimmick fight where a 12k absorb will come in handy? Cuz I think I got one for you.

    Valithria Dreamwalker


    Your healers are healing the dragon and all you're tanking are waves of annoying adds. I'll bet that having a tank who can take care of himself while the healers do their job will be really nice.

    Then again the adds might hit too hard for any tank to get by without a healer.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satrina View Post
    You mean they may be intending for you to mix and match from icky previous tier gear? Perish the thought!
    I'm doing exactly that. I've just begun running out of bag space and my Outiftter tanking set list spans several time zones. I swap gear at least for times for a PoS run. Ok, that's extreme.
    But I now am seriously carrying 4+ alternatives(not counting DPS gear) for each slot with me. Apart from the shield but that's another issue.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
    pioneer of representative government who was
    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satrina View Post
    You mean they may be intending for you to mix and match from icky previous tier gear? Perish the thought!
    But but but but but


    I was lead to believe that GS was directly proportional to my skill as a tank!!
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    But but but but but


    I was lead to believe that GS was directly proportional to my skill as a tank!!
    Duuuuh it is. Satrina knows nothing, no idea why he gets an OP trinket named after him!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  17. #37
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    There is actually a pretty acceptable mixture of hit and expertise on most of the ICC 25 gear, especially if you are using Cataclysmic Chestguard over your tier pieces, which, spoiler alert, you should be.
    The boots off Valithria have a large amount of expertise, and Paladins, Warriors, and Death Knights all have a huge amount of expertise on their set legs. Going Legs/Gloves/Helmet/Shoulders with Cataclysmic Chestguard and Valithria boots would not only be the highest combination of gear (BIS for 99% of encounters if you will), it would net you 34 (8.5 reduction) expertise. Every classes gloves have hit, the 277 Ashen Verdict ring has hit, and you can easily substitute a Cloak/Neck (the cloak with hit drops from Blood Princes, the next with hit drops from Lanathel I believe) in with hit over the armor equivalent. With hit food you will be hit capped and expertise capped at virtually no cost.

    TLDR version - ICC is actually the best Blizzard has ever done at creating a zone that is standalone in it's itemization. There are no pieces out of heroic ToGC/Ulduar you will use as a plate tanking class unless there is a gimmick fight. There are multiple tanking items for every need, threat, armor, and avoidance.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Ok, so not Sindragosa, another boss, perhaps with emphasis on breath or dots or anything? I mean that 4pc has to be good for something, right?
    Well, you could always use it in PvP... The strength on the pieces is enough that you could wear the four piece and still stack str, arp, etc. in the other slots. Seeing as people are already crying for Prot warrior nerfs though, adding a big absorb shield probably wouldn't make us any more popular...

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    unless there is a gimmick fight
    And then, it's fine to go all the way back to Naxx gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  20. #40
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    t10 has a purpose

    The set is a way for me to tell which tank dks are smart, and which ones are just wasting badges to look cool.

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