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Thread: Prot nerfs may be incoming

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toushiro View Post
    well when you can crit for almost 20k in arena with a SS it needs a nerf, prot PvP needs to be nerfed in general, it's really annoying.
    Dude if u think prot warrs are the only one doing insane dmg... on 1045 resilience i ate a 13.8k lavaburst kk?

    The prot nerf is ridiculous and prot pvp only exists cause arms warriors are too squishy get CC'ed too much / too often and too long. I hear warlocks / mages cry about the prot warr breaking roots and on the other side they write guides in how to chain root an arms warr. They justify their rootings as "FAIR" imho i think it's fair to counter your nemesis. Then i hear spriests / afflic locks cry about the spell reflection stuff imho another stupid cry 2 dots on 1045 resi bring me down to 45-55% HP.

    In fact, you can even death zone a protwarr... So out of all the experience and information on the interwebs i conclude 2 things:

    1) Blizz developers weren't in the line when the brains were handed out! They just bend for QQ and nerf everything that's being cried about
    2) Many players don't have a single clue about the capabilities of their class

    Anyways writing this i realise my post is utterly useless and probably a waste of time cause blizz doesn't care about feedback they only care about QQ and crybabies and really ignore the truth.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mookey View Post
    But look:


    CBA to qq and never did but this is over the line: there was nothing a warrior of any other spec could do to a well versed mage too. Did warriors complained? NO and they never did...
    Well to be fair, we complained, and the GM response to us was "rock paper scissors"

    So where's our response back to mages now? AND it's stupid because mages STILL can kite us, it just means using their abilities in a different way then they would an arms warrior. It's ridiculous to say there's NOTHING they can do to prot warriors, we have 2 breaks, maybe 3, but we use 1 to get into range in the first place, 1 to break out, and 1 to break out but we're no where near the mage. WOO! so unkitable!

    I'll admit we're tough to peel, but any melee that can't stay in range, is useless, dk's have ranged slows and death grip (zomg pulling people OFF of cliffs, or UP platforms is ridiculous), rogues can stealth their way in, druids are basically un-snareable and have feral charge, what do warriors have? an outdated charge mechanic that often leaves us far away from the target AND puts the rest of our cds on a dr? yeah awesome.


    I'm not going to say prot wasn't powerful, hell I'll even venture so far to say it was OP, but warbringer, and shield slam, wasn't the problem, pve set bonuses, and the massive gains you got from obtaining those bonuses+pve gear is the problem. Disable the set bonuses in arena, and you'll largely see people stop wearing pve gear in arenas and thus balance around specific pvp gear. How many shaman teams ran 4 piece pve to get insane burst and rofl their way to top 100 teams? This is NOTHING new, people have abused pve set bonuses since season 2 or 3, and blizz STILL does nothing about it and instead bandaids things that aren't necessarily broken. removing the pve set bonuses BRINGS shield slam back into line since apparently the biggest problem was Alloran bursting insanely with his t10 2pc bonus.

    I'd love to post on the forums about this personally and suggest it since it seems no one else has in the forums, or at least ask why they don't consider this a viable option. But apparently my account which has been active for over 5 years, doesn't have any active characters to post from. GG

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  3. #23
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    The set bonus I will agree on are the major reason for the OP of warriors. Lets see add in 20% dmg on top of the recent nerf to it yah that is nice…. I would fully say that to balance PVP it should have its right gear. Its not blizzard choice to tell you to what content to play be it pvp or pve. This non sense of one gear set is for the birds.

    I wouldn't mind one gear set per style of content. PVE works for only pve and PVP only works for pvp. No overlapping of gear even those is nice shouldn't be allowed. That way they can balance the two game style apart from each other. The only issue is how to first get the pvp gear and the idea of ranked battlegrounds coming soon.

    If two different gear is needed then their has to be free gear at some point to have a bench mark starting point for pvp. The pvp gear shouldn't be used in pve setting and is disable just like the pve gear is disabled in pvp. Even in world pvp or flagging of pvp it would be a mode of it activing to say you should be in pvp gear and your pve gear is disabled automaticaly. Most pve gear is gotten by drops or crafted even quests give you gear. So in pve as you level up you gain some gear not the best maybe. Overall ever since the gear merging up this has become an increasing issue to use the same gear across the board.

  4. #24
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    I'm going to apologise up front if this sounds like a rant.

    These latest proposed changes are really winding me up. As has been stated, these nerfs fail to address the real problem, ie too high damage in pvp. The reason I am annoyed is that Prot is the only warrior spec that gives me a measure of survival in 1v1 pvp without a pocket healer. Arms is awesome when you have incoming heals, makes me feel like a god of war, without one we are pretty much a free kill to a 'well versed' player. I have never played as fury but I hear they are /lol @ in pvp.

    For example, I go to AB, (still not good enough for arena I'm afraid) and the first thing I do is look for a healer in the group. If there is one I /w them and ask if they will look after me. If they refuse or there isn't one (usually isn't one as a rule) I respec to Prot. I don't want to, but it is the only way I can measure up against certain specs in 1v1, (and despite Blizz saying the game isn't balanced around 1v1, they sure did a good job of making many other class/builds viable). As arms its really irritating to spend 100% of in combat time moving at walk speed, or bashing on someone and watching their health go up while all I have is a 3 min hot, a stun/immobilse hot, another hot that procs when I get critted and my bandages. And 2 of those talented hots overwrite themselves. 10 seconds is a long time in pvp.

    And even worse was looking at the Blood DK tree at 3.0. As well as the really well balanced abilitiy list they have, the Blood tree gave them extra healing as well as a MS ability. Fortunately Blizz changed that, but compare that talent tree to how weak Arms was on launch. It took the highest rated DK of season 5 to recommend changes to Arms (IC charge, 100% tfb and an 'immunity breaker' if I remember right) to get Arms buffed to a useful state, but even then Fury got nerfed to the point of being worse than Arms in order to 'help' people decide to respec from Fury to Arms.

    Its hard to take Blizz seriously anymore. With Prot being the new poster child of Warrior pvp, I think buffing Arms/Fury would be a more useful move than nerfing Prot. Anything that would remove our very high dependance on healers would be more than welcome. In fact, if they replaced Blood Craze with a Blood tap ability, I would hunt Bornakk down and start humping his leg in pure gratitude.

  5. #25
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    I've been fooling around a little in PvP the last couple days (haven't been playing as much as before since I've run out of stuff to do with the arena season ending and no really gear to grind for.. coupled with battlegroup failings). I've been pretending that the nerf to warbringer was already in and seeing how it would affect my play.

    Ultimately it seems like its non-critical, mages can still be flattenedif they would have been flattened before, those who can't be flattened wouldn't have been flattenable before either, remmeber good mages already abused the deadzone.. so intervene was the only real root break anyway. Survival hunters may become our worst enemy though, again only if they're good.

    I've also had at least one person reroll and rage on me after an AV, claiming that I should 'live it up because I was getting nerfed to teh ground', I had crushed him (a pally healer) and some random DK 3 times in a row without death before the AV I got dumped into ended. The irony being that none of the nerfs would have made the slightest difference in my squishing them.

    I honestly think the nerfs were designed to be primarily cosmetic, in order to calm the QQ barrage from those like my rager who are represented heavily on the forums. Most of the informed opinion agrees that the 'OP' aspect of prot is in the gear, possibly also combined with the burstiness of PvP as a whole where stun locks are disproportionately important in killing healers due to the 'binary' health bar nature that GC like to point out recently (100 or 0, nothing in between). This leads me to think that the devs may be witholding real judgment until the stats nerfs and changes intended in cataclysm along with the health:damage:healing ratio modifications.

    tl:dr
    Blizz made the prot nerf to appease the stupid people and probably fully realizes how cosmetic they are, just be happy they didn't change anything real.

  6. #26
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    I would agree that still giving us root breaks will lead to us using our good old macro to intervene back in BC more often. The reality of it though is still a root break and in a 2v2 , 3v3 and 5v5 you all will have targets within range one would hope to get out of it. Just to charge back into the range person. Funny thing is intervene uses rage but charge gives us rage.

    All it will mean is you will see warriors flying across the room more often twice instead of once. The only place we might see it as an issue is in a 1v1 because no one to help us to break roots. Beside when is this going into affect the way I hear it these changes are preposed ones and might not happen until XPAC. Unless they are doing it with the new season start date.

  7. #27
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    i totally agree veryl. everything that made prot "op" wasn't changed, while the changes going in just effect how you do things. instead of charging out of nova you intervene and then charge. this will make prots who didn't intervene alot before now do it, wo their teammates will have the safeguard buff on them more. sure it only lasts 6 seconds, but there's always some sort of multi-target dmg flying around.
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  8. #28
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    Nobody is allowed to beat mages.... NOBODY.... hence the nerf.

    Blizz is going to put us back into the days that we can't run around without a pocket healer. Warriors and Rogues are the 2 classes that absolutely HAVE to be in melee range to do damage. IMO the PvProt build is basically a rogue in plate without stealth and vanish. Its a very similar playstyle, where kills have to be set up with timing and disruption. Warbringer is going to completely take that aspect away and make PvProt even harder to play again. This will put us back behind paladins, druids, DK's, rogues, and every other class that can snare and kite, which we have just caught up to in PvP.

    Nobody thinks twice when a pally rolls up stuns you and takes you to 50% with a hammer and divine storm, backs off and then smacks you with an excorcism. This is mostly due to the fact that forums were flooded with complaints about paladins for a long time now, and people have realized it's in vein because like mages, paladins are a pet class. But now that a warrior can roll up and stun lock a player, OMG OP, they get the nerf.

    PvP is supposed to be balanced, (or at least Blizz says they are trying to head that way) and I have seen many posts discussing the most OP spec in the game. Even the recent ones remain the same, frost mage. Now that there is finally a class out there that a frost mage cannot kite everywhere it must be nerfed because.... mages have to be able to kite every class in this game, deep freeze you at will, and then smack you with their 6-8 k ice cannons.

    If this is taken away from warriors it will just be Blizzard showing how biased they are. Take vanish from rogues, take Hand Of Freedom from pally's, stop letting Druids shapeshift out of all movement slowing affects, no more chain pull spam from DK's, no more soul portals? for warlocks, and best yet, take away blink from mages. You are taking our biggest mobility talent away, one that completely defines our class, much like the talents for all of the classes listed above. This nerf is ridiculous, check how many prot warriors are in the top 100 players...... 2. Yeah thats OP...

  9. #29
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    Curious to see if the shield block nerf is going to go through with the upcoming resil changes.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bouddieehh View Post
    Dude if u think prot warrs are the only one doing insane dmg... on 1045 resilience i ate a 13.8k lavaburst kk?

    The prot nerf is ridiculous and prot pvp only exists cause arms warriors are too squishy get CC'ed too much / too often and too long. I hear warlocks / mages cry about the prot warr breaking roots and on the other side they write guides in how to chain root an arms warr. They justify their rootings as "FAIR" imho i think it's fair to counter your nemesis. Then i hear spriests / afflic locks cry about the spell reflection stuff imho another stupid cry 2 dots on 1045 resi bring me down to 45-55% HP.

    In fact, you can even death zone a protwarr... So out of all the experience and information on the interwebs i conclude 2 things:

    1) Blizz developers weren't in the line when the brains were handed out! They just bend for QQ and nerf everything that's being cried about
    2) Many players don't have a single clue about the capabilities of their class

    Anyways writing this i realise my post is utterly useless and probably a waste of time cause blizz doesn't care about feedback they only care about QQ and crybabies and really ignore the truth.
    People shoulda just rolled Fury for PvP, it's miles better for it and is still raid viable, every Arms warrior I face off against that has PvP gear gets slaughtered by me in my Ret PvE gear, their damage sucks imo.

    Mages aren't hard to kill in PvP either if you are of the right class. They can try and kite me all they want, I can just bubble if I take a lot of damage, pop Hand of Freedom, stun them and crit them for 10k per attack.


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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyplesko View Post
    Nobody is allowed to beat mages.... NOBODY.... hence the nerf.

    Nobody thinks twice when a pally rolls up stuns you and takes you to 50% with a hammer and divine storm, backs off and then smacks you with an excorcism. This is mostly due to the fact that forums were flooded with complaints about paladins for a long time now, and people have realized it's in vein because like mages, paladins are a pet class. But now that a warrior can roll up and stun lock a player, OMG OP, they get the nerf.
    Funny though that a warrior can charge you from max range and you are still stunned even before that player hits you, while pally stuns have a 10 yard range or so and the target must be in front of you.


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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    People shoulda just rolled Fury for PvP, it's miles better for it and is still raid viable, every Arms warrior I face off against that has PvP gear gets slaughtered by me in my Ret PvE gear, their damage sucks imo.
    Lol, Arms in PvP gear, with little Arp I imagine, vs little old you in PvE gear? 1v1 yeah? Yeah, you are a God.

    And Fury for PvP? What are you, high?

    Edit: This thread is about Prot, go and fight a Prot Warr in an Arp Crit build if you want to understand. Don't be surprised if they burst your bubble. And your ego.
    Last edited by Anomandaris; 01-22-2010 at 12:02 AM.

  13. #33
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    I don't get this warbringer nerf.

    On my server Horde has the nasty habit of camping the towers next to the badge vendor in the fortress. So If I go there in order to exchange stuff for honor so I can get the shoulder enchant I usually will get attacked by a mage or a warlock. There is one particularily nasty mage you can count on being there. Last time I LOSed out of combat, switch into my anti Hodir gear and pretended to run off. He left his high place and I could charge and spell reflect and shield bash and concuss his sorry a$$. But what really mage me wonder was why he frost novaed me and didn't just stay in my dead zone. I always was able to charge/intercept out. If he had been a lot cleverer then he wouldn't have run afoul of my spell reflect as much. I wouldn't have been able to break his CC. And he would have had ample opportunity to escape. I mean I only survived with 5-7k life and that was with wearing a full frost resist set after blowing all cooldowns against a complete muppet.

    If our root breaking was the problem then there is a counter to that. I don't buy it. When I get ganked there usually is no intervene target to be found. I just as well might sit down to get it over with.

    And even with amob fully sundered I never saw a SS beyond 10k. And that's fully raid buffed with a mob lighted up like a christmas candle. I don't buy one bit of it.

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  14. #34
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    I wouldn't go so far as to sit down and give up against mages after the nerf.

    Even 1v1 where you can't outright break their roots... If you play the situation right 'most' mages will still lose due to you going immune or on heavy DR to their roots. Yeah they will get a lots of chance to smash you, and depending on your gear you might not live, but learning older tricks like Spell Reflect Bandaging can really make a big difference. Bandaging while rooted is a great way to get many mages to deep freeze themselves for example. Even if they don't waste deep freeze like that, spell reflect bandaging can basically reduce the net health lost from most frost mage combos by at least 1/3rd. Other things worth doing can involve using pet positions to take cover from the mage when you aren't rooted, killing the pets while LOS of the mage etc.

    The nerf is largely superficial, annoying yes, devastating... nope.

    I'm currently more concerned with the resilience buff as it may present prot warriors with a catch 22 situation.

    Currently most of us use PvE Dps gear to shift the baseline of the spec further towards DPS viability compared to the heavy turtle state it in even with 'neutral' gear. Still any competitive prot warrior will still point out how easy it can be for certain comps to destroy us very very quickly as it is now. I do wonder if shifting towards AP/Crit with resilience gear will start to be more accepted this coming season. I've never been BiS for PvE DPS gearing so I do know that PvP gear set up properly can be very dangerous. However the resilience changes may also kill that... If we suddenly can't kill healers at higher rating without pure PvE gear.. but at the same time run into issues with cleave comps not being able to burst healers quickly enough to offset the glass canon gear, we may end up being stuck in a situation where the resilience gear helping other classes may ultimately not protect us enough to offset the loss is offensive viability.

    Its an unknown that I really don't like, but I guess we'll see how things unfold.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anomandaris View Post
    Lol, Arms in PvP gear, with little Arp I imagine, vs little old you in PvE gear? 1v1 yeah? Yeah, you are a God.

    And Fury for PvP? What are you, high?

    Edit: This thread is about Prot, go and fight a Prot Warr in an Arp Crit build if you want to understand. Don't be surprised if they burst your bubble. And your ego.
    Prot warriors who are geared like that are still easy to kill, prot pallies on the other hand are a different story.


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  16. #36
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    Just like to say I have a well geared prot warrior and can pvp well although I haven't tried arena I do have my 50k honorable kills. Couple things I can say for certain a well geared prot warrior can not beat a well geared disc priest, prot paladin, or elemental shaman maybe once in a blue moon if your get lucky but, consistantly no way.

  17. #37
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    They're talking about buffing Devastate now, too... so it looks like we'll be a little less mobile, but hurt them even more when we get there. Odd nerf logic.

  18. #38
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    yeah....

    this is a weird change, seriously they're nerfing all the wrong things, and then trying to "fix" the sink by hitting the fridge. My devastates can crit for over 4k when grim toll procs in my full arp/prot setup, if they buff dev even more, it's gonna be pretty insane in terms of damage unless they scale it with defense rating. I've all but given up hope on blizz on this fix and just hoping they just make pve work and sort this all out with cataclysm, the warbringer nerf + shield slam nerf + resilience buff, was easily enough to fix everything already, now they're just getting change happy.

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  19. #39
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    Yes, i thought the idea behind the nerf was we did too much dmg and had too much utility.

    Okay we can't charge directly out of a root but intervene still works, so that won't hurt too much, but i'm guessin just quick on the keys and you can still intervene + charge them.

    Less dmg on CB, did it really do that much dmg? More of a nerf to people soloing mobs as prot i would say.

    And more dmg on devastate, it really does look like a nerf to please the whiners without doing too much that could really hurt us.

    Excellent

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anomandaris View Post
    20K crit with sheild slam? Don't play naked in the arena then. And please add something a bit more constructive, maybe we do need a nerf, but at least add some reasoning, like how about 'ban T10 pve gear from pvp' etc.
    I have almost 1.2k resli in my PvP gear.


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