well when you can crit for almost 20k in arena with a SS it needs a nerf, prot PvP needs to be nerfed in general, it's really annoying.
I was reading WoW.coms Care and Feeding of Warriors and came across the following link in one of the posts.
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> What Shall the Prot Nerf Be?
Due to their being a lot of QQ because of Prot Warriors in the Arena (seems its due to the T10 2p bonus), Blizzard are condsidering the following changes:
In the next content patch the current plan is to change Warbringer a bit so that it no longer allows Charge and Intercept to break roots or snares but Intervene would remain unaffected.
We'll see if any further changes come down the pipeline.
Also, this is another Blue post in the same thread:
We are also considering some changes to Shield Slam to where it won't affect players in normal tanking gear but it will affect the scaling of block value for those who are stacking it. This isn't guaranteed as we still want to make sure it doesn't have a real negative effect on PvE, but in turn we may have the threat caused by Shield Slam just straight increased. We'll see how this goes as we test it internally.
Didn't they already cap SS dmg in 3.2?
Does anyone else think this is an over-reaction? Warbringer is the best talent in the Prot tree IMO, no longer being able to break snares without a parter to Intervene to seems to me to be a terrible idea that could possibly break Prot Warrior PvP. I'm not good enough to Arena by a long way, but the thought of getting rooted and being unable to break it in a BG when I'm 1v1 has broken me out in a cold sweat.
20K crit with sheild slam? Don't play naked in the arena then. And please add something a bit more constructive, maybe we do need a nerf, but at least add some reasoning, like how about 'ban T10 pve gear from pvp' etc.
Summary: I'm really sad for all the prot warriors out there.
Since my first day playing WoW, I rolled a dwarf warrior. Unbeknownst to me, I didn't realize that warrior was one of the classes that took the most skill to play. I figured it'd be "run up & hit stuff." I loved the idea of being a tank though, so I tried & tried to level a warrior. In the end, I accepted my personal skill level & rolled a paladin.
My point is, since that first day I've been amazed at what some of the warriors out there can do - especially in the realm of Prot PvP. I watched players like Murth take a spec that was "rofl" & own people with it. One video shows him in S2 gear taking out rogues with both Blades of Azzinoth.
When Wrath hit, warriors got Warbringer. I still couldn't bring myself to make a warrior, but the videos coming out were amazing. Finally, protection warriors were a viable spec in PvP. It was amazing to watch top level PvPers (read: Swifty) just epitomize what the warrior was all about, "running up & hitting stuff." Warriors were a juggernaut.
Now that protection warriors, who inherently pick over every stat to find the best possible combinations, have maximized their gear & their potential, other players are upset that they can't match the level of game that a good warrior in good gear brings to the table. Much like in dungeons & raids, the tank HAS to be good & now that mentality is paying off in PvP.
I feel this nerf is 100% uncalled for. Protection warriors finally had some respect in PvP. Taking Warbringer "away" is the one feature that brought protection into the limelight. I fear that it'll be back to the kited dinosaur, slowly moving around the battlefield.
Nevertheless, this nerf will push some away & it will once again make it difficult for warriors. However, I know you guys will find away to bring your particular form of death & destruction to the battlefield. Players did it before Warbringer & I'm certain you'll be able to do it again without.
Keep hope alive. This is a huge, uncalled for kick in the junk - but one you can walk away from.
Last edited by Goins2754; 01-09-2010 at 08:33 PM.
Goins, that was a really nice post, but I swear to god if you continue to talk about prot warriors in the past tense I will jump on you and bash you with my sheild!
Very well written though, that was a nice and thoughful post.
I'm under the impression that the protwarriors regarded as "OP" is stacking armor penetration, not any form of block value. Hence the claim that block value needs to be capped even more isn't completely valid.
Also - Shield slam is not used as the primary attack at all, it's mainly used as a dispel or a good number two attack. The skill that is used the most is actually revenge, due to the stun i suppose (And of course shockwave).
Don't know how the 2set T10 will affect this priority though.
EDIT: Shield slam hitting for 20k is completely absurd.
I'd say you'd be pretty lucky to shield slam for anything above 6-8k, even with buffs/sunders/low resi.
I don't play PvP as protection, but I suppose I agree that it needs a nerf. But we certainly don't need any nerfs in PvE.
Last edited by Daxwax; 01-10-2010 at 06:17 AM.
the skill used the most is devastate, you spam it at the cost of 9 rage per and does anywhere from 3-5k dmg. spam that every global and keep shield slam on cd and you will take huge chunks out of someone's health very quickly.
revenge is rarely used since you need someone to melee you, and you need to dodge, block or parry it. you don't have the avoidance in pvprot setups like you do in your tank gear so revenge proccing is few and far between. against rogues it's good since you can get a lucky proc and get a quick disarm on them while they can't dodge it.
Revenge will still have a decent uptime vs. anything besides casters. Shield block will ensure that.
The problem of prot pvp is not the ability to spam devastate / revenge though, its the armor penetration that is the core problem.
The stat isn't used by PvEtanks anyway, just put some kind of modifier on ArP as protection specced warrior.
up until a few weeks ago, murth on illidan was using straight str gems with pvprot...he literally wrecked people. arp isn't the only problem with prot in arenas.
but honestly, if arp was the problem more people would be crying about warriors in pvp in general. right now it's mostly just pointed towards prot because people get offended when they get steamrolled by a "tank".
I think the worst part is that Blizz are punishing every Prot Warrior, because a certain build type has scaled outgoing damage too high. Imagine being an exclusive PvP Prot Warrior, who doesnt raid and therefore has no access to DPS plate with Str, Stam, Arp and Crit. Their damage is normalised to where Blizzard are comfortable with it. The Warbringer nerf will hurt them hard, forever to be rooted like an Arms Warrior with half the damage output.
I would prefer to see SS, Dev, SW and CB be unaffected by Arp, that would bring the damage back into line somewhat and would completely unaffect those not using Arp and also PvE tanks (who may have a small amount of Arp from a DPS 1H, but that barely makes a difference to damage and threat). Crit shouldn't be touched, as PvP gear has plenty of that.
I'm not sure I would agree with you on that point Destruyen, although there is a lot of QQ, I think in most cases it is justified, from watching Murth's vids his damage seems way too high. Prot has good survivability, excellent control, I don't think we should have high damage as well, who wants to be a plate wearing Rogue? I just think nerfing Warbringer is a stupid and unnecessary idea which fails to address the real problem. It will also force every Prot Warrior to wear Arp gear so they can put out enough damage during their 'decreased face-time' to be able to compete.
Team Blizzard, once again putting their feet in their mouths. WTS angry backlash.
Honestly, just because 0.01% of prot pvp warriors manage to get to this lvl, does this warrant a nerf?
Warbringer was the means for many of us to survive in pvp realms. This is going to be where people are going to be hurt the most, not in arenas, but in everyday ganking.
I agree with the thought that nerfing warbringer to not remove snares or roots will put us back in the days before we had it. When I do get a chance to pvp in my prot set I enjoy it for the fun part of moving fast and with this change it would nerf the fun part of pvp in prot.
Removing the ability to wear it in the areana like they did for some of the professions back in BC could work. That said warriors have to some one that doesn't know there class to get out of what we can do. Most if not all class have some form to stop us or to get away. The thing about warbringer was back in the beta of woltk it was what they are wanting to return it too no snare removeal for charge or intercept.
The thing I do tend to agree is that if they want prot pvp to go away then make warbringer only affact us in defense stance only. We can use our charge, intercept and intervene in all stances not just defense. They buff battlestance to give us armor pen but adding in 2 ways in that stance just seems too much. Even arms doesnt have that abilty to do that without changing stances.
I know I wouldn't care if the only stance that was affected was only defense because I am in it for 100% of the time while tanking content(PVE). This would truely affect pvp prot because no crit stance with 3 charges (back to 1), no 10% armor pen and 3 charges (back to none while in combat), and defense would reduce our dmg and the dmg we take and removing snares with charges. The other stances wouldn't be able to remove the snare affect. It would require way more dancing around in stances to make it workable and everytime you switch you start with 0 rage so the person beating on them would have time to kite them some.
This of course though would make them be in defense stance so maybe they could do something that while in that stance for pvp only so they could balance it out. Items such as reduced resil by a set % that they would need to make up say 1%-3%. So to go prot pvp you take same dmg in PVE content but more in pvp places while in defense stance so to stay in defence stance would be a bad thing for pvp and a good thing for pve. Not being in defense stance you lose your snare affect removal becuase the longer you are in it the more likely to be killed in pvp. Of course then you need to make up the resil so then they would need pvp gear thus fixing the issue of them not wearing this gear.
And that is my thought on this issue. Doubt they will do anything positive because they are usually quick to nerf then to buff anything let alone work out a good mixture of nerf and buffing.
honestly, where is everyone getting the idea that arena prot warriors sit in defensive stance?
If your prot and your pvping you wouldn't be in defense stance but warbringer allows for all stance not just defense. So their in lines the problem to a degree.
No changing stance but still remove roots and snares plus having no reducing your dmg. Its basically having your cake and eating it too.
What distrubs me is that they actually think that nerfing warbringer will somehow solve something while they ignore the fact that pve gear is required to prot pvp at high levels. They're trying to fix a runny faucet by reshingling the roof.
I liked the roof, I didn't like the runny faucet...
Ultimately, this really won't solve anything at the high end, it will simply reduce FOTM IMHO. Anyone who already understood how to use intervene to save using big cooldowns and worked with their team to ensure that LOS for intervene was always maintained will have little issue circumventing this. The only purpose this change has is to allow teams to soft CC Prot warriors out of LOS if they are dumb.
exactly Veryl, high level warriors will still rofl face, because shield slam damage WASNT the key component, and hurting our mobility although sucking, will just make life harder and longer for everyone in the arena, but largely won't end the usage of prot warriors in arena, I plan to still use it in s8.
CBA to qq and never did but this is over the line: there was nothing a warrior of any other spec could do to a well versed mage too. Did warriors complained? NO and they never did..."The problem with the PvP side of Warbringer is that when you consider prot warrior versus mage (just as an example), there was nothing a mage could do to a well versed warrior."
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