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Thread: Lets rise up as a community against this crap shall we?

  1. #1
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    Lets rise up as a community against this crap shall we?

    In the next content patch the current plan is to change Warbringer a bit so that it no longer allows Charge and Intercept to break roots or snares but Intervene would remain unaffected.

    We'll see if any further changes come down the pipeline.
    And if that doesn't fill your rage bars...


    There are numbers in between 1 and 10. Players have a bad habit of viewing everything in terms of extremes. Yes we want Protection to be viable in PvP and most likely it still will be. Nerfing them because they are overpowered is not the same as them being useless.

    Expecting the forum-visiting WoW community to ever come to a consensus on anything is unrealistic. That said, Protection warriors in PvP wasn't one of the arguments where there were a lot of very passionate souls on both sides. Many players suspected or were outright convinced that Prot was overpowered at worst or at least really frustrating to play against. On the other hand, we've posted several times that if the totality of their beef is just seeing Prot in PvP at all, then they're out of luck.

    These arguments are somewhat similar to those rogues saying "But we're supposed to do high damage" and seeing nothing wrong with being 1000 to 2000 dps higher than others in their group. Yes you're supposed to be in PvP. You're not supposed to own PvP.

    If you're one of those players with no interest in PvP and just don't want to see your tanking potential hurt, then I am slightly more sympathetic, but then again you should know what I'm going to say by now. WoW is a game with PvP and PvE components. Just because one of those isn't of interest to you personally doesn't mean we should neglect it. (And as I've said, we aren't interested in nerfing Prot warriors who are actually tanking.)
    (Source)

    Warbringer is a hell of a lot of fun and super useful in PvE. As someone who never does arena, it upsets me to a high degree that they went for the throat on this one.

    Do prots need to get nerfed in PvP? Maybe, I can live with that, but lets not murder one of the best talents in the game along the way.

    ...It's okay to use a PvP strategy based on survivability. It's only a problem if you aren't giving up much damage to go that route. Giving up utility is a trickier thing because we want everyone to have a lot of utility, and in fact the Cataclysm talent tree design is to give players many utility options. Giving up utility almost always leads to a more boring play style.
    Gotta love Blizz sometimes.
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  2. #2
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    Warbringer: removes only non-player snares & roots is perfectly acceptable, but ANY nerf to PvE is unacceptable in the current situation.

  3. #3
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    Please post your concerns to the original thread so the devs are more likely to notice it:

    OP = World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> What Shall the Prot Nerf Be?
    Tanks: We like it rough.

  4. #4
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    Last thing I want to see is Tankspot being used as a place to "rise up" against anything.

    As long as they don't interfere with PVE, couldnt care less if they nerf Prot PVP to the ground.

    although, i saw talk of more threat, less damage for shield slam which is annoying as my under geared Pally already does WAY more DPS and threat than my higher geared Warrior.

  5. #5
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    Please post for me, I can't post on US forums. Thanks.

  6. #6
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    Fine, let them change that and absolutely nerf Prot PvP (which I don't do) into the ground to the point where there are NO prot warriors in PvP, hell, will there be any warriors at all in PvP at that point? It'll be back to the days where mages are using rank one frost bolt to kill warriors, yes, I did that back in the day, it was funny as hell, no it probably wasn't for the warrior who had no choice but to sit there for 10-20 minutes while I killed him


    BUT


    If they do this, they need to remove ALL snares and roots from PvE encounters

  7. #7
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    All things change, nothing stays the same. You really should be used to PvP<>PvE changes by now. If not, you're playing the wrong game.

    Post on the official forums to voice your concern rather than making a non-constructive QQ thread.
    Better yet: offer up a solution to the issues voiced by Blizzard!

  8. #8
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    This is a pretty light nerf all things considered. Everyone has to take their medicine when it comes to balance, I don't see any difference here.

  9. #9
    It doesn't help your arguments when you basically say, "Screw PvP, they can rot, but leave my PvE alone."

    Blizzard won't respond well to that sort of attitude at all. There's multiple aspects to this game, and just because you hate or don't do PvP doesn't mean they're going to ignore it just for you.

  10. #10
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    This is standard PVP nonsense. There are roughly 11 Warriors listed in the SK Gaming Top 100 for 5s that are Protection spec. Of those, not all may be doing arena as Protection (although all could be).

    The question is, will Blizzard be able to make this change without screwing us in PVE?

    There are numerous examples of an ability working differently in PVP vs. PVE. I recall that at one point Exorcism was insta-cast PVE on all mobs but not castable on players...

    As an example, not that I really think we have anything that is remotely similar or that would even make sense to have not work vs. players except for taunts.

    I also see this as part of the baggage of the Warrior class. The best guys in the best gear have generally screwed everyone else by being so "amazing" vs. any spitball with a pulse being able to do said "op" action due to class choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalken View Post
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  11. #11
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    IMO a fix to PvP v PvE balancing issues is to just place locks on specific abilities when you enter a BG/Arena. Removes the OP and leaves PvE alone.

    This could be applied to all classes. However I'm not sure how fesible that is to implement.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  12. #12
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    They should just partition all abilities and say, "This is how it works in PvE, and this is how it works in PvP" This way they can leave PvE entirely the fuck alone imo.

    As for "rising up against things" as a community, Tankspot has risen against stupid warrior changes in the past (See: WoTLK beta) and I hope that just because we're an official site doesn't mean we take things sitting down and put blind faith in the devs.
    Tanks: We like it rough.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    This is a pretty light nerf all things considered. Everyone has to take their medicine when it comes to balance, I don't see any difference here.

    QFT. If you don't think warriors got off easy, check out what happened to deathknights the last couple of patches, (and no I don't mean the IBF nerf that was specifically directed at tanks) because they were by and large anti-unholy/anti-pvp.

    I'm not saying "nobody will notice," the nerf, or anything like that, but compared to some of the more recent pvp spilling into pve nerfs, this one is a slap on the wrist.

  14. #14
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    That's exactly it. These nerfs aren't substantial, even for pvp. Every class suffers beneath the nerf bat and we've had a pretty sweet run in WOTLK. I don't like these nerfs, but the game is still more than playable, even in pvp.
    If anyone in this nation could read, they'd be outraged!

  15. #15
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    Pointing out the severe DK overnerfs in previous patches does little to placate concerns that Blizzard won't nerf Prot to huge detriment. Quite the opposite in fact. Putting aside the "further changes" that weren't yet specified, the nerfs that have been mentioned aren't all that substantial, no, but in the context of a class that quite badly needs buffs, it's quite dire that any nerfs that effect PVE even the slightest are being considered at all.

  16. #16
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    Can someone help me out please? I've been trying to think of a piece of meaningful pve content in this expansion pack where I could charge to break out of a root or snare while tanking. I can think of examples where I have been rooted (thorim hard, maybe hodir) but in neither of those cases would the boss have been far enough away from me for charge/intercept to have worked, so I'd have used intervene (or as likely called for dispell/freedom). The only significant slowing effects I can think of have been area of effect (e.g. anub frost, rotface goo) rather than debuffs that would be cleared by use of warbringer.

    It seems to me that if you want to build an argument against a proposed change, you need something a bit more material upon which to base that argument, and I'm struggling to see anything. The shield slam change might be easier, if it comes and depending on the details.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    Can someone help me out please? I've been trying to think of a piece of meaningful pve content in this expansion pack where I could charge to break out of a root or snare while tanking.
    Faction Champs.

    Seriously, the Warbringer nerf doesn't bother me much at all. It's quite acceptable in fact. It's the idea of a Shield Slam nerf, as well as the possible 'further changes' whatever they may be.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    Can someone help me out please? I've been trying to think of a piece of meaningful pve content in this expansion pack where I could charge to break out of a root or snare while tanking. I can think of examples where I have been rooted (thorim hard, maybe hodir) but in neither of those cases would the boss have been far enough away from me for charge/intercept to have worked, so I'd have used intervene (or as likely called for dispell/freedom). The only significant slowing effects I can think of have been area of effect (e.g. anub frost, rotface goo) rather than debuffs that would be cleared by use of warbringer.
    Heroics have tons of snares though, and as PvP is more than just the top 100 teams (which don't seem to have a major issue with prot), PvE is more than ICC.
    Every other tank has a way to close gaps to ranged mobs that slow/snare you, be it HoFreedom, shapeshift or Mortal Kombat-grip.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proletaria View Post
    QFT. If you don't think warriors got off easy, check out what happened to deathknights the last couple of patches, (and no I don't mean the IBF nerf that was specifically directed at tanks) because they were by and large anti-unholy/anti-pvp.
    If you really believe that you're either blinded by your class or an idiot. DKs were running rampant across all levels of PvP for several content patches before they were finally reigned in. Furthermore, when the round of pvp nerfs finally came they still left DKs as about the best tanks in the game, waiting on yet another round of nerfs (well over 6 months into the game) before anything at all was done about tank balance.

    Now, I admit that despite the fact that there are extremely few prot PvP warriors in the highest brackets I can see the theorycraft issues with capping SBV from strength while stacking ArPen if you have access to BiS DPS gear for your prot warrior, and I have no issue at all with Blizz nerfing that part of prot PvP, but to degrade any part of prot warriors PvE right now is insulting. Anything that reduces the DPS of the lowest DPS tank, or reduces the mobility of the worst AOE threat tank is a slap in the face to the people who put in the time to play warrior tanks.

    Don't compare nerfs to OP DKs to nerfs that hurt PVE prot warriors because a fraction of a percent of them can also PvP at a (possibly) OP level in arena, because that's a horseshit comparison.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlhungus View Post
    Faction Champs.

    Seriously, the Warbringer nerf doesn't bother me much at all. It's quite acceptable in fact. It's the idea of a Shield Slam nerf, as well as the possible 'further changes' whatever they may be.
    Agreed Karl. The Warbringer nerf will suck once in a great while in the heroics where there are PvE snares, but really aren't the biggest issue. Any reduction to prot warrior DPS IS a big deal, and that's a very wrong decision if they go through with it.

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