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Thread: Being told DW is not viable for raiding.

  1. #1
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    Being told DW is not viable for raiding.

    So I'm told today that DW frost DK's are not viable for any raiding and that I now have to change specs and tank 2h from now on because my threat is too low. Can I get some suggestions on how to improve my gear/talents etc. My current rotation is IT, PS, BS, BS, OB (HB if rime procs), RS when up.

    Here is a link to my armory:
    The World of Warcraft Armory

  2. #2
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    Honestly I would DW tank, but your threat problem is in large part because of the abysmal expertise you have. If your threat is low in raids you need to get closer to the soft cap (26) and you are at 13(!).

    Worse, you are way over capped on hit. Sure, I realize that as a DW frost DK you can use more hit because of the off hand, but still, the expertise is much more important for both threat and survival, so drop your hit gem asap for expertise one, and maybe swap some gear around.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the advice, i'll get right on that.

  4. #4
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    Couple of notes. The whole reason people DW is for the extra def stats. Not to mention your using agi weapons. Str helps out your damage as well as parry. Your avoidance is too low for your gear level. Your using a dps trinket. Your enchanting for defense and your boot enchant is used primarily by casters. Your also using a dps glyph. You don't have any points in acclimation which is better for tanking than many of your dps talents. Not to mention your missing out on the no cost interrupt from endless winter. Your also missing 2 points in anticipation.

  5. #5
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    I have tanked ICC 10 and 25 as a frost DW tank and had no threat issues.

    You need to 26 expertise, or more. You can drop all of your hit too, you need less when DW to hit the cap for specials.

    Glyph of disease is also not worth it since you can't roll your buffs with it anymore.

    If you have a shaman in your raids you can drop all of your iit points after the 3 in imp icy touch too.

  6. #6
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    Since your main issue is threat i would suggest respecing for +5% dodge to make use of your RS more frequently since it is a high threat and high damage ability that should be part of your rotation anyway. Since your hit is - as mentioned before - way too high, you could take the point out of thosde 3% hit for spell and put them into the dodge and a 100% crit HB. Use it right after getting you diseases going, instantly after pulling, raidbuffed it should crit for at least 9k, thus granting you about 16k threat. This gives you a headstart over the DPS and will increase you chance to get a RS proc right away.
    Also, make sure to pull with DG, granting that the boss will attack you, and only you, for a short amount of time unless he is taunted of. Eventually, your abilitys comeing of cooldown will overlapse, but as long as you keep in mind that RS is your first priority threat strike will make this easyer to deal with.
    (This is meant for boss threat only, let me know if you need help with trash threat as well)
    Finally, I am sorry for my crappy english and you may find some typos in this post, but since i am austrian and not a native speaker i guess you will forgive me .
    "Warriors aren't viable as tanks!" - my guildlead

  7. #7
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    "The whole reason people DW is for the extra def stats"

    No.

    I mean you could say that, but you won't be saying that when the DPS is ripping threat away from you. Two slow one handed DPS weapons are where it is at. Also don't fall for the hype of the new nerubian weapon buff. Running the +4% to parry on those two DPS weapons will yield a fairly large chunk of extra runestrikes which will in turn allow your sigil ability to stay up. The only time I will run nerubian is on a fight that is a complete HP check and even then I still run two slow DPS weapons (the TOC battlestars gemmed for stamina). If you only PUG content the leaders will not be smart enough to understand anything except hitpoints and you will be forced to run those nerubian enchants.

    Bind Runestrike to all your attacks in your rotation. Use D&D every time you possibly can. Tab through your targets constantly and hold on the ones you are closest to losing threat on until you get a runestrike or two off and then keep tabbing.

    Keep every mob in front of you, you can tap backward very slowly to do this and use the facing of the mobs to figure out of you are faced properly or not. If you back out to the point you can see your own back they will often just snap through you again.

    Your taunt is a bandaid, it isn't going to fix the DPS threat issues permanently but it will cover up for a few seconds. If you can get a runstrike off in this time you can pull ahead. Tell your DPS when they are threat hogging, you have to know your limits.

    Glyph howling blast if you are talented for it, use a single disease. The snap aggro of one HB (glyphed) + BB + D&D (glyphed) along with your glyphed runestrike will be enough to hold threat off anyone except for the most geared threathog classes (who should be good enough to NOT pull threat).

    I've tanked through saurfang as DW frost and I have to say it's pretty much fine. I feel like we are in a better boat than warriors and druids for the new content. We'll never be paladins but we are good enough.

  8. #8
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    With the 3.3 changes, single disease promotes less damage/threat so I'd rather take something other than the HB glyph It was the one time I got pulled off of.

    It will look cool, but you don't need to pull with DG, just IT running in and continue your rotation. You'll do fine.

    I know slow/slow is supposed to be the best, but I also got two Ardent Guards with parry enchants and the added defensive stats were nice, with no noticable threat loss.

  9. #9
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    Listen to the advice above. DW can do very well if spec'ed / geared correctly, but can also fail miserably if not.

  10. #10
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    Thank you everyone for the info.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaeden View Post
    With the 3.3 changes, single disease promotes less damage/threat so I'd rather take something other than the HB glyph It was the one time I got pulled off of.

    It will look cool, but you don't need to pull with DG, just IT running in and continue your rotation. You'll do fine.

    I know slow/slow is supposed to be the best, but I also got two Ardent Guards with parry enchants and the added defensive stats were nice, with no noticable threat loss.
    I've done a lot of observation of my threat meters and I just can't squeeze more threat out of the diseases these days. I'm at 6k threat with lows and highs of 5k and 7k whether I use a one or two disease rotation. On the other hand the AOE threat with HB glyph and single disease is so strong only single target high threat DPSers have a chance of pulling a mob off me, and only when I don't tab over to catch up on threat occasionally.

    I do see about a 1k threat loss with tanking weapons, but my tanking weapons are all sub par.

  12. #12
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    I have never noticed an issue with threat, unless the DPS is being stupid such as dropping massive AoE on the mobs before they are even hit by my Death & Decay O.o wtf dps wait a couple of seconds for the mobs to get to me...

    I currently use two tanking weapons, but then again, I have yet to get dps drops since the patch >.<
    Was using two Runescribed Blade - Item - World of Warcraft then Burnished Quel'Serrar - Item - World of Warcraft dropped for me.

    Been trying to get Nighttime - Item - World of Warcraft or Black Icicle - Item - World of Warcraft to drop but I have yet to see them. Other than the Rimefang's Claws I just can't get a drop that is actually useful to me from the new stuff

  13. #13
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    I went back and forth using a pair of malices and a pair of ardent guards. Unless omen can show over time threat trends, I am not sure I can accurately say which produced more threat, although the additional mitigation and avoidance from the tanking weapons and parry forges look nice on the character page

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaeden View Post
    I went back and forth using a pair of malices and a pair of ardent guards. Unless omen can show over time threat trends, I am not sure I can accurately say which produced more threat, although the additional mitigation and avoidance from the tanking weapons and parry forges look nice on the character page
    Look at total threat generated on each attempt, and try to have each test session about the same length of time (get as close as possible).

  15. #15
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    I personally am not knowledgable about how to get it to save/report. I'll have to look into that.

    Session length is determined by who causes us to fail :P

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaeden View Post
    Session length is determined by who causes us to fail :P
    Sorry, thought you meant you were whacking a target dummy.

    You could, although it wouldn't factor in RSes. :P

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