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Thread: I really worry about Prot Warrior DPS.

  1. #241
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    Your dps needs to step it up, period. If you're having close wipes like that, upping prot warrior dps isn't the issue. Your dps classes not performing or being undergeared is, and that will come and bite you in the ass on other fights in ICC, especially Queen.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeviousOne View Post
    Your dps needs to step it up, period. If you're having close wipes like that, upping prot warrior dps isn't the issue. Your dps classes not performing or being undergeared is, and that will come and bite you in the ass on other fights in ICC, especially Queen.
    So instead of putting the problem with the tank DPS, you just ask the DPS in the Warrior tanks raid to perform better? How is that less of an issue?

    So far the ONLY valid argument against Warrior DPS that is valid is Sunder Armor.
    The major Armor debuff costs DPS to maintain (BM hunter with tank pet, Rogue using finisher, DPS Warrior using Rage), thus bringing a Warrior tank is already a DPS upgrade for that DPSer that doesn't have to keep up the debuff.
    But this argument can be nulled through a simple question; where is the DPS increase then for Shouts (compared to blessings, MotW or Horn which increases DPs as well), Demo Shout (Vindication) or Thunderclap(IT, IW, Judge)?
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  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeviousOne View Post
    Your dps needs to step it up, period. If you're having close wipes like that, upping prot warrior dps isn't the issue. Your dps classes not performing or being undergeared is, and that will come and bite you in the ass on other fights in ICC, especially Queen.
    Sure, and anytime a tank dies, you can say, it wasn't tank survivability issues, it's cuz the healers didn't heal fast enough, or anytime an enrage timer misses you can point to the boomkin or shadowpriest in the team sitting at the bottom and say, lets get them changed instead. The simple fact is, our dps is low as a tank, it's a lifestyle issue, it's a comparison issue, and yes, 1% wipes CAN and DO happen, and frequent enough that it should be addressed. You can turn around and say "well someone else was slacking", but is that really the point? if we had a paladin tanking instead of me on our 80k wipe on festergut, would anyone blink twice and say "hey mr shadowpriest, do more dps?" no, you'd be celebrating a kill. The biggest problem coupled with this is our limited attempts on bosses, wiping 1% on BQL, Sindragosa, TLK, or Putricide DOES matter because that directly affects how many times you have to do the other 3. Math has been done, graphs have been shown, if DPS really isn't that big of a deal, then Fine, bring all the other tanks dps back down with us, give them baked in threat, and say, there, TPS still the same, dps, all sucks ass, and when you wipe at 1%, blame the DPS.

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  4. #244
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    The main problem isn't even so much the 1% wipe (although that can be an issue), so much as it is the logic "If you have a warrior tank, you need your dpser's to work harder."

    It'd be one thing if warrior tanks had far more survivability, but the issue that people have is if your dps have to work harder to bring a warrior tank, and you get no survivability benefit, why take that warrior? That's like saying "Prot warriors can tank any content just fine, so long as their dps is good enough to carry them." That's the real concern here with the dps difference.

  5. #245
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    I am sure it has been brought up in this thread - but i will bring it up again. At the beginning of this expansion they've said that tank DPS could be the difference between a wipe to enrage and not.

  6. #246
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    yeah well they've been wish/washing on stuff recently Zoal, first they said that, now they're quoting to say "1% wipes are few and far between" (zomg wtf what?!), and at the beginning of this expansion, they removed a ton of our baked in threat, to try to allow us to deal more damage, and now they're putting MORE baked in threat into SS and conc blow, and instead reducing their damage. (backpedal.... backpedal... backpedal....)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    yeah well they've been wish/washing on stuff recently Zoal, first they said that, now they're quoting to say "1% wipes are few and far between" (zomg wtf what?!), and at the beginning of this expansion, they removed a ton of our baked in threat, to try to allow us to deal more damage, and now they're putting MORE baked in threat into SS and conc blow, and instead reducing their damage. (backpedal.... backpedal... backpedal....)
    Personally, I think there's few situations where a slight dps increase on a tank is gonna make any difference, but then I look at Warwench's spreadsheets...and I wonder who else does.

    All the sudden you're going to see raid leader's going "Well we can whip harrangue and push all our DPS to work harder to get a 2-3k overall improvement...or we can just get a tank that can do that AND tank as well as a warrior. Why bring a warrior?"

    Knee-jerk, FOTM reactions run this game. I know you can't cure stupid, but if you balance everyone out a little more it helps. I'm not even asking to do as much DPS as a DK or Pally. I just don't want to be doing 2k less on average in a given situation.

    Also I agree about the constant backpedaling. It's annoying.
    Last edited by Eisen; 01-26-2010 at 05:39 PM.

  8. #248
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    I don't see any reason why a war tank shouldn't be doing as much dps as a healer hybrid class tank....

  9. #249
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    It has nothing to do with whether or not the tank is a healer hybrid or not. Warriors should be doing around the same dps as the other tanks because they are tanks.

  10. #250
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    I said the same about paladins and bt/sunwell, but hey... It's what happened.

  11. #251
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    The ability to tank all content is different then preforming on equal ground against other tanks. When the Hard Modes are being done will we be sitting in the side lines to the encounters? problemly not The thing is though 1% or not if other dps are doing sub par dps then they get replace why not the tanks next. If all dps are preforming above par and still running into an issue of dps then the next place to look is tanks.

    IMO warrior tanks are having the simliar issue's each content released which is scaling of gear. The only good thing that came out of woltk is rage on dodge & parry now to wait till next xpac to fix another issue which seems to be rage in general. All the fixes that are happening are only putting back to how things were before woltk (to a degree) when it comes to our dps while tanking.

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