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Thread: I need help with Survivability.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    I need help with Survivability.

    Armory Link: The World of Warcraft Armory

    According to my healers, I'm extremely hard to heal by comparison to our other tanks. We have several warriors, druids, and paladins who all seem to be much easier to heal through boss fights than I am.

    I honestly cannot figure out why this is, though it was suggested I drop the deep wounds spec in favor of commanding presence. I don't feel that this is the issue, and would really like to keep my deep wounds spec. I would consider this if I were guaranteed a position in a raid as a tank but I'm often subbed to DPS so I cannot simply use my dual spec to accomplish this.

    Any advice, beyond simply "Get new gear", that would help me become a more formidable tank would be appreciated.

    Currently raiding ICC25, by the way, I make due but not without at least one complaint or wipe blamed on me. (i.e. Saurfang frenzied and the healers couldn't keep me up.)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    If you don't see threat as an issue, then I would take their advice and switch to a spec that is geared more towards survivability. I'm sure you already know this, but the deep wounds spec helps with threat on larger mobs, especially on heroics. Now that you are tanking the higher end raids, a survivability spec might make the difference. I noticed your expertise is a little low, and you may want to get that capped to help your threat and make it easier to switch to a survivability spec.

    Also, it could be attributed to class mechanics. I don't know all the stats, but I've noticed, at least compared to pallies, warrior tanks will take more damage. The other warriors could be using their cooldowns more effectively, which can really help negate damage ie., Shield block.

    Your gear isn't bad at all, and it looks like you are gemming for full stamina, which is a good choice.
    "Good morning, apparently the assassins have failed."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    4
    Yes, I gemmed for stamina at the guild's suggestion. Previously I was a real stickler about getting my socket bonuses. Additionally I began using a brewfest trinket in place of my Onyxia blood talisman despite feeling naked without the avoidance it provides.

    You're right though, my expertise is low and I have started eating Expertise food to make up for the lacking. Threat is not an issue, and I may have to consider the survivability spec.

    Thank you for your reply.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Hai Indahl!

  5. #5
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    Jan 2010
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    Hi Gnarly.

  6. #6
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    Jan 2010
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    Your gear is fine ike already mentioned your spec could be more survivalist with improved demo shout and glyphed shield wall in place of the cleave glyph.

    How in particular are you dying?

    Surfang and his frenzy hits hard but dying here can be caused by other things, If you have too many marks your healers tank healing is spread thin when it gets to 30% (the solution normally less healers not more and less ranged as long as the adds can be dealt with as people can spread more resulting in the boss gaining less power due to splash damage on the aoe).

    Also what healers are you having assigned to you? Hopefully you are getting a holy paladin as they should be fine keeping you up with a little help from the other healers.

    Other fights such as deathwhisper dont hit very hard provided you kite deformed fanatics and interupt all or most of the frost bolts in phase 2.

    Gunship depends on your role and if your boarding you may need to end with a cooldown before jumping back.

    Marrowgar is alot about quick reactions and staying stacked and being quick to avoid the fire, the quick reactions being as much on the rest of the raid as yourself boned healer is one less healer keeping you up which is again time to use a cooldown personal or from a healer.

    Edit: I have tanked it in similar gear to yours so im sure its not a gear issue.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Essentially it just seems to be that I "take a lot of damage". I, personally, don't really feel it or am not seeing it. But according to the healers, my wife included, I get hit hard and my health drops much faster than the other tanks.

    I haven't yet tanked Muradin during the Gunship battle. Except on 10 man, which I did so without issue.

    On Marrowgar I'm usually reserved to taking saber lashes (which will hit me for 11-15k depending on whether or not I blocked), and I'm pretty good at staying out of fire taking 1, maybe two ticks if I'm actually standing in the middle of it when it drops.

    I've yet to tank Deathwhisper, on either 10 or 25, I'm usually needed to fill the role of melee DPS on the caster spawns.

    And on Saurfang, I usually don't run into a problem until he frenzies, at which point I'll end up having to pop shield wall or last stand+enraged regeneration to help healers keep me up for the first couple of times it comes for me to tank him.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    The other tanks may well be cycling cooldowns when your not realising it or may just be specced into more survability.

    Shield walling etc is normal for when saurfang frenzies although it is possible, just not easy to be kept up without as your health will go up and down like a yo yo atleast for now but that is the same for most tanks.

    Do you blow both LS and SW at the same time or stagger them and do you use things like armor pots as these can be a big help, chug one just before you start and then one again later on, 2.5k armor will help mitagate a little and smooth the damage a little.

    If you use both at once then when they both wear off it gives the appearence of far heavier damage than using one then the other. you maybe taking the same hits as normal when you last stand but your further from death.

    The other tanks class can also depend on their appearence of how much damage they take. Dk's are generally spikey but they have an army of cooldowns to blow when they have to (saurfang is that time) and Druids are just bags of Armor and stamina so take more consistant damage in icecrown given that they seem to be hit harder with the Chill effect since they dont have parry to fall back on.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    The one thing that stands out to me is that you don't take Improved Disciplines or Glyph of Shield Wall. That says to me that you probably are not a proactive user of tanking cooldowns. Warrior tanking is all about using your tanking cooldowns proactively to reduce your incoming damage. Spec and Glyph for it, and use those cooldowns often. Very often. Unless there's a big damage spike coming within 2 minutes that you'll need your shield wall for, you should be using that shield wall. Same goes for the other cooldowns. They aren't emergency buttons.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    52
    Blooddraining enchant may help too.

  11. #11
    You might want to consider investing in Glyph of Indomitability for the fights where you're taking lots of physical damage. Between the armor and the strong 'use' effect, it's a very good trinket that a lot of tanks overlook.

    I would look towards getting some stronger legs as an upgrade - if you can afford it, Pillars of Might are incredible. The t9 legs are a pretty weak piece in general with the SBV on them, and you have the 232 version, which again drains some stats out. I don't think the t9 set bonus is worth retaining if you're having survival issues.

    I shouldn't think that your spec is really at fault, unless you often don't have improved demo shout (or Vindication or imp Demo Roar) in the raid. In fact, I main tank with a very similar spec and have no particular issue.
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