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Thread: Tanking With NON Tanking Weapon

  1. #1
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    Tanking With NON Tanking Weapon

    Yes you have read the title correct. I am asking about using a non tank stat weapon to tank.



    FIRST! Let me explain I have been tanking since I started playing this game over 5 years now. I have NEVER used any weapon that did not have tank stats. However due to my luck with weapon drops in wrath I have found myself in a tough bind. My guild is a core raiding guild and I am a OT we just downed the first 2 of 3 new bosses in ICC 25 and starting Professor Putricide Tonight. We had a few hick-ups as most guilds did but we adjusted and we killed bosses. Now I really dont think I will use this weapon to tank progression raids but the idea interests me so I thought I would get some feedback

    Weapon in Question





    VS





    Now according to my math Using the 264 axe vs the weapon I have now witch is the piece of shit one from new heroics I would be out .81% avoidance and thats not really that bad of course we really dont wanna lose any avoidance and my threat is not a issue so there is no real reason to adjust my normal game play and use this weapon.

    So I guess my question.....

    What do people think of using non tank weapons to fill a spot till a real weapon comes along?



    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Maxiumerror

    Last edited by maxiumerror; 01-07-2010 at 01:49 PM. Reason: added armory link

  2. #2
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    Unless you're a druid or death knight tank, I do not suggest using a non-tanking weapon unless it has sufficient health + armor over other tanking weapons. The reason is that even though it's losing .81% over all and getting more damage + threat, it isn't really needed.

    Your job as a tank is to keep threat (Which if you're guild is hard core raiding, you should have fine threat just from your gear alone), and to SURVIVE. A tanking weapon is just one piece of the puzzle to keeping yourself alive. Think about it this way, if you use the dps weapon you perhaps add a couple hundred dps to the boss, but you take more damage compared to a tanking weapon.

    Tanking weapons usually supply more stamina, and stats that can make just the slightest difference in having you dead and your raid upset, and you alive and having the raid happy.
    Last edited by Frostglaive; 01-07-2010 at 02:21 PM.

  3. #3
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    lol you are talking about progression and I am talking about non progression tanking such as for multi mob, heroics, raids on farm. This weapon seems ideal for a threat weapon.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostglaive View Post
    Tanking weapons usually supply more stamina, and stats that can make just the slightest difference in having you dead and your raid upset, and you alive and having the raid happy.

    First off since you must of not understood. I would never use this in progression. Second if .81% is reason you down the boss or not then you have a lot more issues.

    Also I have tested this weapon in Heroic HoR with mongoose and my increase in damage received was so marginal that was pretty much un noticed. Yes this is a heroic but check this out

    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    Halandir]
    [/B]DPS weapons: These would fall under the "threat" category, as they don't have any defense stats. I include these because they are fast weapons with threat stats and high dps. I used the normal mode Toc25 sword from Jaraxxus for a long time until I got a tanking weapon that was on par dps-wise.
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/4...ar-glance.html

    Look at link ^
    Last edited by maxiumerror; 01-07-2010 at 03:01 PM.

  5. #5
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    Well, this depends on your definition of a "tank" weapon. Take my advice with a grain of salt for I am a druid tank. I can't use "tank" weapons. Now I don't worry tank so forgive me if I gloss over the numbers a bit, but I have been know to down rank weapons from those that have more survivability to those that have more (Feral) attack power on them. For me, it worked very well. My motivations were more threat based, but the point is similar.

    But, this might be one of the key diffrences between a warrior tank and a druid tank. I can manage 2 - 2.5k DPS while tanking, and while I never paid a terrible amount of attention to Prot warrior dps, I know that more often then not I beat it. When I use a weapon that has more Feral Attack Power on it, I get an upgrade of 300-400 at a time. Can you say the same for using the Waraxe? Will the DPS you do with the axe be all that much different? Enough that it worth loosing an entire % of avoidence?

    I doubt it to be honest.

    A tank that can not hold threat ceases to be a tank, do whatever you gotta do to keep threat. After that, your job is to stay alive at all costs. Any extra damage you deal is incidental, maybe you can squeeze out a few extra hundred dps while doing this, but if your still 3,000 DPS behind the rest of the raid. What difference did it make?
    Last edited by Liquidska; 01-07-2010 at 02:58 PM.

  6. #6
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    Well if you are talking about heroics and other things like that, even then it's a bad idea. Most people are critics when they themselves are horrible at what ever they are doing. More than likely you get into groups with people who get mad at you for having that sort of weapon.

    But just overall, having that weapon isn't going to cause that much of a difference for damage + threat, and you should just stick with the tanking weapon.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostglaive View Post
    Well if you are talking about heroics and other things like that, even then it's a bad idea. Most people are critics when they themselves are horrible at what ever they are doing. More than likely you get into groups with people who get mad at you for having that sort of weapon.

    But just overall, having that weapon isn't going to cause that much of a difference for damage + threat, and you should just stick with the tanking weapon.
    If he uses this in heroics, who the hell cares? If he has the gear to tank ICC 25, he has the gear to equip a Grey soup ladel and tank H Nexus just fine.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidska View Post
    If he uses this in heroics, who the hell cares? If he has the gear to tank ICC 25, he has the gear to equip a Grey soup ladel and tank H Nexus just fine.
    I understand that, just giving my opinion. Each person has a role though in parties, raids, etc. If you wish to play around with this it's a game and the idea is to have fun, do what you think is best.

    But as far as tanks go, they aren't meant for damage and are meant to stay alive and keep threat, but mostly to stay alive. Your question was which to pick, so I am explaining why I think tanking weapon is the way to go.

    1) Defense + stamina = Less heals needed in heroics (even though that usually is already the case)

    2) Avoidance = less chance of taking damage, and activates enrage + other damaging / threat abilities.

    Overall, a prot warrior isn't meant to be doing damage so it shouldn't really be even thought of in wow. We do more damage now since the patch that made it so we do 5% less damage instead of 10%, but we are meant to just stay alive and that is all.

  9. #9
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    I avg 2.4k dps tanking except last night in ICC 25 on festergut I was almost 4.1k dps with 9 stacks. I am aware this is not ideal, and no tank should bother with it. Yet it still seems a lil interesting reason I thought I would post

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidska View Post
    A tank that can not hold threat ceases to be a tank
    Not true I have 83% avoid and threat is not a issue. VIG with glyph on correct person = ZERO threat issues., and ability to play a warrior correct with proper rotaion

  11. #11
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    lol.. if you are a geared tank in heroics the rest of the party is to busy rejoicing to bitch. I DW Rimefang's claw when I run randoms because it looks cool, even though slow/slow or slow/fast weapons are far better combos for dk tanking (I use slow/fast in raids). Nobody gets past the fact that they random pugged a 41K plus health tank to dwell on the silly weapon choice I use when running randoms.

  12. #12
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    Well that one then show you can hold threat and therefore his statement is right, correct? Either way, your question was what people thought and we are merely stating what we think of your statement.

  13. #13
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    Well I thank everyone for posting seems everyone is in vote that .81% more damage received is not worth the increase in threat

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxiumerror View Post
    Well I thank everyone for posting seems everyone is in vote that .81% more damage received is not worth the increase in threat
    It's not quite that...it's because threat currently isn't something we struggle with. Even the hardest dps race today isn't threatcapping anyone. All of my threat problems today stem from "I am generating threat on everything, but mostly focusing on the first target to die" coupled with "lololol watch this dps!" used on the wrong target.

  15. #15
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    I haven't seen mention of the Bonebreaker Scepter in this thread....

  16. #16
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    I tanked using Hatestike for several months until on my warrior I managed to grab a Peacekeeper Blade. It helps that I am a JC on my warrior though, so my stats didnt' suffer at all.

    I did get some raised eyebrows though.

  17. #17
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    OP, do go ahead and run around with your "soup ladel" in heroics, as planned.

    If healers can get away with healing heroics wearing santa suits, and tanks do their thing in heroics with PvP gear on, etc., etc., I hardly think you need to ask if tanking some heroics with a threat weapon is ok.

    For farmed raids though, I'd be more concerned what the Raid Leader thinks (assuming that isn't you), and to heck with what we think. And I wouldn't want to give an opinion that would let you steamroll over your raid leader cause "tankspot said I could" -- not over something like this.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxiumerror View Post
    I would never use this in progression.


    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/4...ar-glance.html

    Look at link ^
    I would. If threat means nothing in progression then neither do DPS or healing. Those saying this is worse as a tank weapon than Rimefangs POS should go back and read Fortifications again. The whole point of the Effective Health strategy, aside from keeping the damage stream consistent over spiky is the rage and threat portion. Yes, you lose 20% dodge from chill. No kidding. Here we have a higher DPS, higher ilevel, faster weapon. What this does is greatly increase the number and damage of heroic strikes going out. Coupled with near-infinite rage. In turn this makes it easier for the DPS to push their numbers higher, killing the boss sooner and securing the chance that your healers won't go oom by the end (if they do at all, that is). Think of a fight like festergut, hard enrage timer. A weapon like this one, even though it drops after him, would be more than ideal. Don't discount it for progression just because it's not defensive. A tanking weapon is still a weapon, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxiumerror View Post
    Not true I have 83% avoid and threat is not a issue. VIG with glyph on correct person = ZERO threat issues., and ability to play a warrior correct with proper rotaion
    83%? Where do you get that number? Also, glyphing vigilance for what? You should have zero threat issues without it w/ proper rotation. Vigilance is a waste of a glyph spot when you think about Blocking, Devastate, Taunt and Shield wall. I can't see a spot to fit it in among my 4 main glyphs that rotate the Major slots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  19. #19
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    One thing to note, however (since I've been fooling around with the 251 axe - Bone Warden's Splitter - Item - World of Warcraft that drops from Marrowgar), is that you DO get a small amount of armor from the agility, to offset the slight avoidance loss, although you lose out on the strength. It may be less an issue of threat, though, and more the dps output. If your dps output is greater with the axe, and you have a fight that you need mroe dps output on, it might be worthwhile.

  20. #20
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    as an aside, I tanked approximately 4 heroics barehanded (with a shield) in a search for Unarmed (400). My threat was only a minor issue, since i lost some abilities as I was disarmed.

    As the MT for a guild that is progressing (albeit very slowly) in ICC, the rest of my gear set completely overwhelms what a heroic can bring.

    /only did it with guildies who knew what i was up to, wouldn't do this to strangers

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