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Thread: Sustainable Warrior AoE

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Amersfoort, The Netherlands
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    228
    Solution wise? Alter sword and board to give you a 'free' Shieldslam or Thunderclap when it procs. Let the ability still cost a global cooldown. In this situation I'm not sure if it'd still be okay to make thunderclap hit harder, maybe make it scale just a little bit better.
    My lack of proper signature actually is a proud minimalistic stand

  2. #82
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    Nov 2008
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    The idea of TC always criting to apply deepwounds is nice but most progression tanking don't take the talents due to us needing lower CD's. The idea here are flowing around the sense of how we have to spec and glyph for a certain type of fight while other classes don't. The deepwounds build is nice for AoE but when you are dieing it doesn't do as good as a 2min Shield wall and last stand.

    Now for the idea to allow sword and board to proc. TC would be interesting. Would give us prot warriors a buff to dps some and boast our AoE threat by a reasonable amount. Down side to the TC was that it hits the AoE caps for large packs and doesn't still do as much threat as other aoe classes.

    I just hope we don't become a on the move tanking living off SnB procs to keep our AoE threat high which becomes a 2 button spam for packs (if they added it to SnB). The reason i enjoy warrior tanking is because it gets more of my attention then any other class I play.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    63
    My solution to AoE threat really had to be addressed doing add tanking for Anub, and basically forcing me to have two tank specs because of it due to talent changes I use for that one fight specifically (2/2 imp spell reflect, 5/5 shield spec etc). To help with the threat issues, and the fact that I cannot use SW to generate threat in that fight due to stun DRs and having our retadin who is hit capped use Holy Wrath for the interrupts forced my hand to glyph with Taunt/Cleave/Sunder. Running any kind of trash with this setup and giving vig to the correct person means I have zero issues really with AoE threat, and the one errant mob that may happen from time to time will be on the person I vig 95% of the time so my taunt is refreshed pretty quickly.

    Slap in Tidy Plates Threat Plates in to the mix and honestly it's made things even easier to spot when I'm losing the threat race on something. Now I'm not saying I wouldn't like a buff to AoE threat gen, but there are solutions out there currently to help you in that matter if that is the focus you're wanting to go. As the MT in my guild I have the luxury of going a double tank spec so I know this solution won't work for all.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    22
    Hello guys,

    some of you pointed out the important and difficult parts of aoe tanking as warri. I'm a warri tank too and i know it by my self. But i don't thing the main problem is the aoe threat it self, the most difficulty is to pick up new adds, that spawn after time, when the aoe abilities are on cd. And the second problem is bombing or single targeting dps that pay no attention on threat. Pally tanks have more styles to hold threat on mob groups, but in fury spec i pull although the aggro from some mobs. But the big advantage of pally is the taunt mechanic. Their multi traget taunt and the short cd of taunt in general. As warri with a 8s cd on single taunt and an unbelieveable 2min cd on multi traget taunt are a weakness. A new design of the warri taunt mechanic will help us alot. For example an 4-6s cd on single taunt and an 8-10s cd on multi target taunt will be a nice alternative. In random groups i have often the problem that one dps pull aggro, then i taunt the mob and another dps pull aggro from another mobs 1-2 seconds after that. So, i have to wait 6s for cd of taunt or run to the mobs and pick it up again. Thats not really nice and works not very well. I thing a new taunt mechanic, like i describe, will help us alot. Especially at the amazing aoe dps on same mobs groups, like trash in icc.
    Last edited by Devilkuerk; 01-27-2010 at 05:35 AM.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    138
    The concerns on new pop's is small because if you know they are going to pop you can save your CD for snap agro control which most other tank classes dislike about it. Plus in general AoE threat on a warrior comes from our ablitiy to tab around and make threat or keep the mobs grouped up with TC and SW. The thing is taunting shouldn't be used more by one class of tank verse another the idea of changing taunt is good but the better soluction IMO would be to fix our overall AoE making.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    2,021
    Honestly I don't understand why they don't make Challenging Shout a real taunt (actually gives you threat = 100%) and lower the cooldown to 1 minute (you shouldn't need it on short pulls cause mobs die too quickly to care, so that would probably be short enough). It has no effect on PvP, it's different than a paladin or DK (druids would get the same change perhaps), and it helps with AoE problems (gets stuff to target you).

    This won't fix the problem alone, but if they buffed damage shield to say Holy Shield level of damage as well, that would go a long way in helping AoE sustained threat. You could use the AoE taunt to make sure you are getting hit (thus getting rage and Damage Shield procs), and rely on Damage Shield + TC + Shockwave + Tab/cleave for increasing your sustained.

    EDIT: Or, if that is difficult to program, leave ChalShout a fixate only, but lower the cooldown to 8-15s so it can be used more often. That shouldn't have any real pvp implications unless you face a heard of Beastmaster Hunters in WSG or something.
    Last edited by jere; 01-27-2010 at 09:19 AM.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    138
    It would fix our AoE threat maybe instead of 10-15 say every 30s for challenging shout ( i.e. basically every pull using it once ) tack on damage shield buff and there could be an increase in tps for aoe mobs. This way the recent aoe nerf isn't affected because the mob has to attack the warrior verse the warrior attacking him.

    I would thou like to give us the threat of the mobs at the beginning of the cast meaning using it gives us the current threat and the mobs are attacking us and creating more threat. At the same time if the warrior does nothing the mobs will still not be on the warrior after the affect has wore off. I would also suggest maybe tacking on 2 more sec's to the affect to insure a TC x 2 has been done.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    5
    I'm starting to get better with AoE threat - in part due to the discussions here, and in part to a larger/better/more appropriate gear selection. In raids (10-man, normal), I co-tank with a Paladin.
    I'm OK with the Paladin grabbing N-1 to N mobs. I check what he doesn't focus on, maybe taunt it as a rage battery, maybe play with the caster in the back - as long as the Paladin can live through it, I'm OK, and if not, I'll see what I can mock/taunt/cleave/stun to make his life easier. Me not being on the damage meters doesn't really concern me too much in raids; my utility (stuns, silences, warbringer, taunt-ping-pong, spell reflect) makes up for it. On bosses - heck, all the tanking classes have their pros and cons, and so much depends on the particular fight anyway, and I am a dual-specced prot warrior

    BUT... My issue is with events like the gauntlet in HoS. The waves are nicely spaced at the beginning that my rage has time to drop from 100 to 0 before the next wave. I can't really charge into things. The pug DPS stands close enough to me that proximity aggro has the melee NPC wail on the squishy; while I try to peel them off the frantic mage, the casters show up on the other side, and I blow my rage on them.
    During the more frantic final waves (stream), I have no issues with rage anymore, but now I'm trying to control about 10+ mobs, including something sneaky that's halfway to Brann.

    And that's where frustration sets in. Yes, with mostly *smart* DPS, I'm fine, and Brann never gets hit. I remember how hard it was and how good my gear had to be before things started to work even semi-smooth. I recently ran that event on my relatively new Paladin. Yes, there were some issues, but overall, given the less-than-impressive gear I had, it was a lot easier. By the time the prot warr. ran out of rage, my pally had a full bar. The pally could insta-grab the waves, the warrior had to build rage.

    I think that's where a lot of others' frustration comes in, and where the "why do we warriors have to work so much harder" question originates. It's not (imo) in the issues of prot DPS or threat in raids - the 500 dps I might gain if Blizzard would make X better, that's being made up by the mage's next gear upgrade or trinket-proc. Threat in raids is just fine if I talk to the other tank and we know what we're doing. The harassment/frustration factor comes in the random heroics with random people of varying skill and gear.

    Nobody can hold aggro against stupid (thank you for that quote), but the tolerance of stupid is higher for non-warrior tanks. And IMO, *that* needs to be addressed.

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