Tanks taking BRUTAL Damage on Marrowgar! HELP!

[Bodisapha]

Ok here's our set up:

3 tanks:

Paladin = 5300+ gs (about 50k health buffed)
Druid = 5400+ gs (approaching 60k health buffed, 30% dodge w/ Chill of the Throne)
Warrior = 5k+ gs (about 40k, not to sure, health buffed)

6 Healers

Paladin (Dedicated on the Paladin tank, healing @ over 5k per attempt)
Disc Priest (Dedicated on Druid tank, healing @ over 4k per attempt)
Disc Priest (Dedicated on Warrior tank, healing @ over 4k per attempt)
Holy Priest and Two Resto Shamans on Raid (all healing at around 4k)

Ok here's the issue: Tanks esp. the Druid tank seems very difficult to keep up. Dedicated healer is spamming heals (inc. using Pain Suppression every cd). Bone spike on any dedicated healer = Dead tank. Bone spikes lasting about 3 ticks.

What is going on?

I am personally a 5.5k geared Priest and my maximum hps in Disc is around 4.5. Same with my counter part (the other disc priest). Do we need to step it up and heal say at 5.5k???

The tanks are geared, and they swear up and down they are stacked perfectly to take the cleave.

PLEASE HELP!

[Deoreus]

Do you have armory links for your tanks (it'd really help more than just the hp)? Do you guys log anything on world of logs? Reviewing that would help as well.

Given what you posted...
At first glance, that warrior with 5k GS is very low on HP for a buffed tank given that 5k GS usually means you're in ToC gear. He may be overstacking avoidance. I find it odd that the druid would be the one needing spam healed given the stats you listed.

We run 7 healers on that right and drop down to 6 for the rest. Running 2 pallies or druids that fight helps a lot with beacon and hots.

[MellvarTank]

Are the tanks stacking up properly? Is the warrior using commanding shout/demo shout/shield block&wall properly? Are the tanks dodging cold-flame? 40K buffed is low for 25 man, but about right for 10 man as far as I can tell. He should be running around 45k buffed in 25 man.

[Bashal]

the Druid tank seems very difficult to keep up. Dedicated healer is spamming heals (inc. using Pain Suppression every cd)

I had the same problem as a druid tank on marrowgar, in 10's, until I managed my cooldowns better. I'll pop one when we're re-establishing aggro after a whirlwind, or when a tank healer gets spiked. Both of those situations can be rough on healers, so popping a cooldown makes life easier for them.

If the druid isn't really using cooldowns at the correct moments (or at all?) and just saying "RAWR I R BEAR I R EAT IT ALL IN TEH FAISE" then I can see how heals on him may need to be spammy.

[Bodisapha]

Thanks for the advice. Yes, we're suspecting that our tanks are not stacking properly and/or taking flame damage.

The tip on using cd's on transitions is well taken - thank you!

Here's the armory links to my tanks:

Byaku (Paladin Tank) The World of Warcraft Armory

Elecerian (Druid Tank) The World of Warcraft Armory

Sifilis (Warrior Tank) The World of Warcraft Armory

Thanks again for the help!

[Eravian]

Hmm... just looking at your warrior tanks health, with full raid buffs he should be getting up to about 47-48k health (I know because my health was only about 300 different until last night)... 45.5-46k if he uses Elixirs instead of a Stoneblood Flask, so make sure he (or someone else) is keeping up Commanding Shout and using flasks or elixirs.

[Bodisapha]

yeah wasn't quite sure what he was rockin' health wise. It's my conviction that the tanks have the gear...... we're simply not executing the encounter properly.

Here's another tid bit... We're stacking everyone in Marrowgar's hit box as to avoid having the raid dodge flames and to get the bone spikes easily together. The trade off on this is that the tanks have to do an intricate dance, while stacked to avoid the flames which come fast and often.....

Anyone else employing this tactic? If so are you experiencing problems with keeping the tanks up?

[Bashal]

Some people find that method easier, and I have seen one or two posts where apparently the tanks are taking too much damage from flames (even though they try to avoid them) as a result of this method.

You could try pulling the ranged dps out and let them dodge the flames, see if that works better for you.

There's more than one way to beat a boss, and which one works best depends on the people you raid with.

[Turkson]

Looking at your paladin tanks armory, I have to ask if you have an attack speed debuff active (Thunderclap, Paladin JotJ) or an attack power debuff (Demo Shout, Vindication)?

I noticed that your paladin is not specced into either of these talents, and both of these combined can significantly reduce incoming boss damage.

[MellvarTank]

Yeah, tanks dodging flames is a lot of un-neccesary healing that needs to be done.

I've found it is much better for dps to dodge flames than tanks. Also, there is a spot inside his ginormus hit box where dps can stand so they don't get hit by flames, and don't flame the tanks. That is where you should be standing.

[Banterloft]

DPS to close, to much fire. Tanks not exaclty down on how and when they dance, to much dmg. One tank is taking lead and the others are following strait away correct? If two go right and one goes left, cleave. You have problems. Is this happening around the same timeframe every fight?

[Bodisapha]

Problems mostly occur in the transition between phase two back to phase one. Bash made a very helpful comment regarding tanks using their cd's then. Anything else we could be doing?

[Nephelai]

Only problems we had during changeover were do to the other two tanks not joining me on the boss fast enough after the transition. To remedy this me and the other tanks just started dancing around the flames in the center of the room so that we were all together and all have a relatively small distance to travel when we reestablish.. regardless of what side of the room he stops spinning on. If all three tanks stay proximate to the center of the room... all watch their timers to see when its time to reestablish and head in as a unit... and all know how to avoid getting hit by something thats shaped like a plus sign... then there shouldn't be any problems.

[Eisen]

Put a raid mark on your primary tank.

Tell the other two they should be on his butt no matter what.

Agree to a dance pattern for flames ahead of time (all left each time, or left right left, etc).

[PatrikL]

Put a raid mark on your primary tank.

Tell the other two they should be on his butt no matter what.

Agree to a dance pattern for flames ahead of time (all left each time, or left right left, etc).

Yeah agree on this last thing. A couple of days ago I tanked this on 10 man and after my tanking collegue had dodged the flames 3 times to the left and me to the right (didnt get ganked because of it but could have) I decided to go left also. Only problem was that he went right this time and when talking to him afterwards it, it turned out that he had though the exact same thing as I had :-)

[Fledern]

Flames on tanks is a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR pain. Yeah it can be danced around but even with fast reactions you'll easily take a 10K extra from flames. Furthermore constant dancing makes keeping tclap & demo shout up a much harder task, further increasing damage taken.

If your tanks are melting, make sure somebody stays at range. Dead boss & low dps > dead tank.

[Banterloft]

Put a raid mark on your primary tank.

Tell the other two they should be on his butt no matter what.

Agree to a dance pattern for flames ahead of time (all left each time, or left right left, etc).

Yes! Your marked tank has two legs thus your other two should be humping those legs at all times with extreme prejudice!

We took our more attentive ranged dps and moved him out and this took care of our problem, once the humping protical was lain down...

[Rominoodle]

Put a raid mark on your primary tank.

Tell the other two they should be on his butt no matter what.

Agree to a dance pattern for flames ahead of time (all left each time, or left right left, etc).

You beat me to it. This is not a hard concept, and if it is for your tanks...maybe they need to work out some simple raid mechanics before attempting to pull off this fight. Also, is your guild using vent? Sometimes vent can get crowded when too many people are talking, so in our raids the only ones that talk during boss encounters are the raid leaders and the tanks. Call out, left or right depending on how marrowgar is placed and where your group is. Not standing in the fire is not a new concept. IMO its your tanks not coordinating with each other and reacting fast enough. If they don't already, have them pick up the DBM add-on. Puts in big red letters, MOVE OUT OF THE EFFING FIRE! (not exact words, but you get the picture)

[Theotherone]

Anyone who's tanked, indeed played WoW, for any period of time must have picked up on the common fight mechanic themes i.e. stay out of the blue/red/green crap (Kel, OS void zones, Razor, etc), tanks stack (cat lady, Kolo, etc), kill the bone spikes (break web wraps, break ice blocks, etc) - it's all repetition on common themes. If your tanks can do one, they should be able to do them all.

[Frostglaive]

The main problem I always see on this boss is people not killing bone spikes in time, people spreading out WAY too far from healers, and tanks never stacking in time. If a Sabre Lash gets off when not all tanks are stacked, that can completely obliterate and take heals for surprise, utterly ending in chaos.

So as people have said previously, have tanks stack, move in the same direction, and people spread out but not enough that they are out of range.