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Thread: Ideal Avoid?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Ideal Avoid?

    Goddamnit IE.

    Okay since it didn't want to cut that entire post, here it is again: I'm a tank. I tank ICC 10. I died alot to Festergut.

    I have 27.42% Dodge, 21.42% Parry, 18.57% Block, stopping a little over 2000 damage on a regular, non-critical block. I did well on Festergut, comparatively - that is to say, I had a flood of heals. I still met squishy, terrible demise right before the third Enhale, getting mashed with 20k worth of damage each hit rather quickly.

    And I was wondering, is it, perhaps, my avoid and mitigation stats? Is there an 'ideal' value for tanking the new wing in ICC? If so, could someone point it out to me, so I don't suffer the same shameful demise next week?

    Oh, and a link to my tank, any pointers would be appreciated - do note, though, the iLevel 213 cape is there for the Block Rating. Right up till Last week I was sporting 25% block, with a whopping value of 2200, but have been forced to keep trading it out for avoidance stats instead.

    Oh and the mace isn't yet enchanted, considering Blade Ward simply for the Parry rating on proc.

    (Maybe I should post that link: The World of Warcraft Armory )

    Or, well, ideal avoidance and miti stats in general I suppose.
    Last edited by 'Adokai; 01-07-2010 at 06:14 AM. Reason: Clarification

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Overall, your gear looks fine. I don't agree with the onyxia trinket though, and as I recently found out Stamina + armor or armor + avoidance trinkets are indeed the way to go, despite the item level.

    To answer your question, there is no ideal avoidance over all that you need. Obviously 102.4% was the avoidance cap in BC needed to not be hit with Crushing Blows, but since these are gone now it is not needed. On top of that, dodge + parry ratings have the same diminishing returns now, and avoidance stacking is now frowned upon due to this, since you don't want healers to be healing you, then see your health almost go out completely in a matter of seconds.

    There are indeed fights where avoidance may be a good thing, but over all I'd say just keep avoidance you get with the gear, concentrate on armor + health and aim for that.

    Also just looking over your glyphs and talents, if you want just for this fight to take less damage, I'd suggest changing glyphs around, using last stand and Enraged Regeneration together with other health bonuses, and popping that shield wall with a trinket when you know you will take heavy damage.

    I do not have any math or statistics to put in here to prove my point, but trust my word. I have taken that advice, and healers have applauded the results when I tank in raids. Look at my things if you'd like, ignore my trinket selection and tier 10 though, found out they aren't the best (Except for the Indom. trinket).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    643
    Do not worry about your avoidance and especially not block, focus on EH(armor and stamina, rough stamina to armor ratio would be 1 stam = 11 armor).

    A few changes I would make along with what Frost said is change your shoulder enchant to the pvp one, get 225 armor for your cloak, 275 health to your chest and 18 stamina to your gloves.

    There are quite a bit of easy gear upgrades for you. In the Triumph section there is the shoulders, head piece and the Glyph of Indomitability. With your Emblems of Frost I would grab the cloak next. The Black Heart from ToC is a nice piece for you and the Chestplate of the White Knight crafted piece is a nice upgrade also.

  4. #4
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    Jan 2010
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    I do have the Black Heart, and have been toying with the idea of replacing my Ony trinket with it, despite the loss of Parry. I'm aiming for the cloak from Frost Badges, as that's the very next peice I desperately need to upgrade, considering everything else is at least 232.

    The idea of pumping my stam has occured to me, and I've been waiting to get my new cloak before I change the enchants - the idea of stam to gloves and HP to chest never occured to me (durr durr old-fashioned idea of stacking Def?) and I'll fix that as soon as I can.

    I'd rather not change out my shoulder enchant, but it's not something I'm set on. If I need the HP, I need the HP, no amount of dodge is going to save me from dying to an unlucky couple of strikes. And I'm definately changing across that helm (or possibly the shoulders, I haven't weighed the differences that well yet) but I'm incredibly hesitant to change out my 4peice bonus - having, in effect, a 20sec cooldown on my sheild block does help, especially in the first wing of ICC.

    I've considered my glyphs for a while, and I've been looking at the Enrage. Regen one specifically, since I pop it almost every boss fight to help keep some stress from the healers, but I don't like the look of that Sheildwall glyph - sure, shorter cooldown, but less damage reduction. Is the loss worth it? If it is, I'll probably slot that in there too. Definately looking at the Last Stand glyph, but again, not sure.

    Overall I'd like to 'keep' the same tanking/glyphing spec (going to change my Imp. Spell Relfect to reduce my SW cooldown, however, and apparently Puncture isn't worth it?) for the entirety of ICC, but glyphs aren't expensive and if I need it I'll change them for the Festergut/Rotface/Putricide fights.

    Thanks a whole heap for the help, and I'll be fixing up my gear as soon as I get my hands on more Triumph badges, durrhurr.

    MASSIVE EDIT IS MASSIVE: I swapped out those enchants, but enchanted my gloves with Expertise instead of the 18stam patch from LW, as I need Expertise like crazy. However, without my Ony trinket my avoidance stats just bottom out, leaving me with 19% parry, 26% dodge and 17% block. This seems almost far too low to be any good. Should I keep the Black Heart on, or wait until I get the 245 Helm from Triumph, which gives me alot of avoid and a nice chunk of Expertise.
    Last edited by 'Adokai; 01-08-2010 at 12:46 AM.

  5. #5
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    Expertise is nice if you're having problems with threat. If that's not your issue, I'd stick with the stamina.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    As the previous reply had said, yes I'd too prefer you to stick with the 18 stam, for that's 180 health and equivalent to about 198 armor. On top of that, you'd want to have that trinket on compared to the Onyxia trinket for even though avoidance can be that nice life saver when it procs, it won't be there for you all the time like health + armor.

    You want your healers to be with a decent rhythm in your health drops, and not to freak out and spam heals, thus wasting mana when your avoidance kicks in and you lose a ton of health due to the lack of armor + stamina.

  7. #7
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    Jan 2010
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    Fair enough, I'll replace that Expertise with Stam right away.

    Threat has really never been a problem for me (except in five mans with a specific DPS friend of mine) and I was really only worried about parry-gibbing myself, but in the end HP generally trumps it.

    Thanks again.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Adokai View Post
    Fair enough, I'll replace that Expertise with Stam right away.

    Threat has really never been a problem for me (except in five mans with a specific DPS friend of mine) and I was really only worried about parry-gibbing myself, but in the end HP generally trumps it.

    Thanks again.
    The advice in here has been generally good, stack EHP and you're on the right track. Festergut hit me for 100k damage in 5 seconds on our 25 man attempts and I was healed through it no problem because I have so much stam/armor. Avoidance is nice, but frankly all you need is what you get on gear. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but generally, festergut is not one of them. For more info on the reasons behind this, I think I have my reasonings typed up in the guide in my link... though I'm considering adding a section to expound upon my EHP beliefs.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

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