Stinky and Precious Combat Logs Needed!

[Muffin Man]

My trepidation with this theory is that wouldn't an increase in weapon skill high enough to trigger crits (over 415) also lead to crushing blows?

Maybe it lowers the targets defense instead?

Or more likely, they just turned crush off on the dogs (but a crush would be less painful then a crit!).

[Roana]

My trepidation with this theory is that wouldn't an increase in weapon skill high enough to trigger crits (over 415) also lead to crushing blows?

This was just an example thrown out, I can only guess at the actual properties.

We know that Blizzard's spell scripts sometimes have very weird and unexpected side effects and properties (a fact that scares me from time to time). See the current two-piece elemental bug, where apparently Elemental Mastery is put on a seven day cooldown if the set bonus triggers, but only if used in a random dungeon/heroic (and there may still be other factors involved).

My mind simply cannot begin to comprehend how you could construct such a bug even on purpose. I have absolute no problem believing that certain spells causing mobs to crit more is a side-effect of their scripts, intended or unintended.

For what it's worth, our warrior got hit (non-blocked) by Stinky after using Shield Block (and again during a Mortal Wound application), which definitely seems to indicate that the spell is futzing around with the combat table.

[Martie]

For what it's worth, our warrior got hit (non-blocked) by Stinky after using Shield Block (and again during a Mortal Wound application), which definitely seems to indicate that the spell is futzing around with the combat table.

I think you are on to something here. I think it's possible that the spell/meleehit combo somehow causes the melee hit to count as a spell. This has the effect that you get the situation where a mob casts a spell with a nonzero crit chance. Then, if the crit reduction on mobs only applies to the combat table, you explain crits. Since it is a spell, no blocks, parries or dodges.
It's strange, but I think it makes sense, and it explains the unblocked hits and crits

[Feranel]

This was just an example thrown out, I can only guess at the actual properties.

We know that Blizzard's spell scripts sometimes have very weird and unexpected side effects and properties (a fact that scares me from time to time). See the current two-piece elemental bug, where apparently Elemental Mastery is put on a seven day cooldown if the set bonus triggers, but only if used in a random dungeon/heroic (and there may still be other factors involved).

My mind simply cannot begin to comprehend how you could construct such a bug even on purpose. I have absolute no problem believing that certain spells causing mobs to crit more is a side-effect of their scripts, intended or unintended.

For what it's worth, our warrior got hit (non-blocked) by Stinky after using Shield Block (and again during a Mortal Wound application), which definitely seems to indicate that the spell is futzing around with the combat table.

On Second thought, I think the reason there may be no crushing blows is that since crushing blows are based on Base Defense vs. Weapon Skill, if that weapon skill is Base Skill only, then there would be no crushing blows due to a modified weapon skill.

[Eatmyhoof]

There's probably something written in the dogs that gives them a higher weapon skill to ensure the Mortal Wounds land on the tanks and cannot be avoided by them. By doing this, they also wrote in the ability to crit. It'd be nice if they could find another way to get the debuff to apply w/o tanks getting crit.

I remember a similar problem in vanilla wow, but it's too long ago to remember details. I think in MC? Doesn't matter. It should be looked into tho, for sure.

[Wars]

I didn't notice this at all in our runs, though it was nothing to worry about. And it really still isn't.

What I would think causes it is just an oversight on blizzard's part.

[Küren]

Yes, they both appear to crit tanks with defense well over 540. As mentioned above, I never saw a crit for more than 8k. I don't know if it is intended but it isn't a huge problem. I guess it wouldn't be good if that happened right after a Decimate though. Their damage does vary quite a bit and it is usually much lower than 8k even if they crit.

[Satrina]

Mob spells normally cannot crit? This would be highly unusual.

Yup.

I'd say that they've just given these mobs increased crit chance over 5.6%. Interesting chance here to definitively parse out if defense past +140 continues to stack crit reduction or if it absolutely caps at 5.6% (past blue text has implied that it does absolutely cap.)

[Kerafyrm]

The third boss in Utgarde Pinnacle's whirlwind is unblockable melee too. Probably is just coded as a physical spell like thunderclap instead of a melee hit.

The critting of spells thing is different though.

[Muffin Man]

Yup.

I'd say that they've just given these mobs increased crit chance over 5.6%. Interesting chance here to definitively parse out if defense past +140 continues to stack crit reduction or if it absolutely caps at 5.6% (past blue text has implied that it does absolutely cap.)

Would also be interesting to see if the dogs crit when *not* applying the debuff too. Which is probably the case actually.

After all, this would be different to how other bosses throw debuffs on tanks. Like Razorscale's fuse armor, Gormok's impale, Thorim's unbalancing strike, and of course Gluth's mortal strike.

[Feranel]

Would also be interesting to see if the dogs crit when *not* applying the debuff too. Which is probably the case actually.

After all, this would be different to how other bosses throw debuffs on tanks. Like Razorscale's fuse armor, Gormok's impale, Thorim's unbalancing strike, and of course Gluth's mortal strike.

That's the thing, all the combat logs I've viewed, the only crits that occur (and not very often, at that) are always coinciding with Mortal Wound.

[Roana]

Would also be interesting to see if the dogs crit when *not* applying the debuff too. Which is probably the case actually.

They never attack without applying the debuff, from what I've seen.

[Quinafoi]

Since no one else seemed to comment on this I will nice and bold.

Precious and Stinky are Level 80 Elites, they aren't raid bosses scaled to level 83. So their base crit percentage should be even lower than the 5.6% bass amount for raid bosses. You can also confirm this right out of Lore's video.

Since they do crit it is likely they are simply classified as a unit with elevated crit chance (like rogue type NPCs). If you really want to test how high their crit rate actually is, use a Feral Druid in Resilience Gear since stacking Resilience will result in higher crit reduction than stacking defense, it also should not hurt their survivability substantially (though it may hurt their threat a lot).