Bi-Monthly GDKP Raid to Pay For Guild Costs?

[Elahrairah]

I've been considering having bi-monthly GDKP runs to pay for guild costs. The system is a basic GDKP build, but essentially, the share of any guild members is donated directly to the guild bank (Obviously PuGs get thier share normally). This allows the guild to supply things like feasts, flasks, mats, enchants, gems, and repairs, entirely free for dedicated raiders.

Some basic ideals to keep in mind:
- It'll only be 25-Mans, and relatively short instances. Things like Onyxia, and perhaps ToC Normal.
- About half of the group would be PuGs, as to keep injecting fresh gold into the gbank, instead of simply recycling the old. This also helps recruitment.

What do folks think? Is it worth it to trade out gold for everything free in a guild (and loot)? Would this cause drama?
I think it gives a direct "Donation yields rewards", though still holding the team feel. Any constructive discussion would be helpful.

Any ways to improve it? Guild lotto perhaps?

THIS IDEA HAS BEEN SCRAPPED. IF YOU'D LIKE TO CONTINUE DISCUSSING THE PROSPECT OF IT FOR YOUR OWN USE, FEEL FREE. SEE POST 12 FOR MY PERSPECTIVE ON IT.

[Mctankor]

Personally I find systems that include "bidding" for items to be crap to begin with..
Also expecting your guild members to pay gold for loot that would benefit the guild if they had?
Id rather pay my own repairs and make my own flasks than raid under any system like that

[Elahrairah]

Personally I find systems that include "bidding" for items to be crap to begin with..

This is a personal preference. Some people dislike it, some enjoy it. Though, GDKP is quite popular currently.

Also expecting your guild members to pay gold for loot that would benefit the guild if they had?
Id rather pay my own repairs and make my own flasks than raid under any system like that

Perhaps having the option of donating to the guild bank granting such a status that allows free repairs, etc would be beneficial?
I'm not sure how to go about balancing that one, though.

[Mctankor]

I dont see why you should NEED to fund peoples raiding tbh. even if you raid 5 times a week and keep wiping for 4hrs, how hard is it really to make that money back with some dailies and/or an alchemist?

[Elahrairah]

I dont see why you should NEED to fund peoples raiding tbh. even if you raid 5 times a week and keep wiping for 4hrs, how hard is it really to make that money back with some dailies and/or an alchemist?

It's not really needed, but it is a very useful perk, in my honest oppinion, as well it does help guild growth, and supply a direct reward (loot) for people who contribute to the guild.
Any suggestions to improve this idea? Possible flaws or issues that may arise? Solutions to said problems?

[hpavc]

What do folks think? Is it worth it to trade out gold for everything free in a guild (and loot)? Would this cause drama?
I think it gives a direct "Donation yields rewards", though still holding the team feel. Any constructive discussion would be helpful.

Any ways to improve it? Guild lotto perhaps?

I am a huge fan of GDKP raids.

In GDKP runs you can definately see the difference in raids where the elite guild is trying to make some cash running stuff they are way over geared for, sadly they usually are very upsetting to attend. Often the bad runs are done with a leader doing more raid leading, he is also doing the book or is also tanking or something similarly vital. Quickly they are frustrated in that the players didn't get the secret communication from the leader about how he wants things done. Quickly the leader points out how something involving a gearscore and things get somewhat nasty.

Likely its a bit of a learning curve if people are not doing something similar (like DKP or running raids outside of their sphere of friends). No doubt its something take is tough to run. And no doubt players are difficult.

I think the nasty stuff can be easily avoided by running the raids as formulaic as possible with a: leader (more of a communicator in these GDKP runs), book, and recruiter works the best.

Have the recruiter deal with any people / discipline issues, vent issues and so forth and keep the leader on the raid side of things as much as possible.

If you want to swap people, you can swap the raid leader. So your onyxia leader can be one guy, champions can be another, and twilight zone be different guy, etc. But if you can keep the recruiter and the book the same from run to run that works best. If you change your book, you might want to have something on your forums on what the rules are and how the book should handle the gold.

Lastly gold screw ups can be a big problem. Make sure that your guild fee (cut, tax, whatever) doesn't appear in a bad light or appears so be a scheme of some sort.

[Elahrairah]

I am a huge fan of GDKP raids.

In GDKP runs you can definately see the difference in raids where the elite guild is trying to make some cash running stuff they are way over geared for, sadly they usually are very upsetting to attend. Often the bad runs are done with a leader doing more raid leading, he is also doing the book or is also tanking or something similarly vital. Quickly they are frustrated in that the players didn't get the secret communication from the leader about how he wants things done. Quickly the leader points out how something involving a gearscore and things get somewhat nasty.

Likely its a bit of a learning curve if people are not doing something similar (like DKP or running raids outside of their sphere of friends). No doubt its something take is tough to run. And no doubt players are difficult.

I think the nasty stuff can be easily avoided by running the raids as formulaic as possible with a: leader (more of a communicator in these GDKP runs), book, and recruiter works the best.

Have the recruiter deal with any people / discipline issues, vent issues and so forth and keep the leader on the raid side of things as much as possible.

If you want to swap people, you can swap the raid leader. So your onyxia leader can be one guy, champions can be another, and twilight zone be different guy, etc. But if you can keep the recruiter and the book the same from run to run that works best. If you change your book, you might want to have something on your forums on what the rules are and how the book should handle the gold.

Lastly gold screw ups can be a big problem. Make sure that your guild fee (cut, tax, whatever) doesn't appear in a bad light or appears so be a scheme of some sort.

Thanks. This gives me alot of perspective on how to go about doing this. The tax makes it a bit better, as well, instead of having 100% of the guild cut go to the bank, it could be a percentage of the guild cut. PuGs again get thier gold normally and in full. Rules will be explained at the beggining of the raid.
Fortunately, as a raid leader, I'm not a tank or healer at the moment. This makes my job significantly easier, though I'm decent enough at it that I may start doing it as a tank.
As for GearScore, it's just my "first check" deal, before checking other things. If it's unreasonably low, I don't usually move onto the rest.

[Elahrairah]

Scrapping the idea. Couple people convinced me that it was pointless to do, since dedicated raiders won't mind a bit of a repair cost, but they'd mind losing gold from a GDKP run.

*Shrugs*

[Dreador]

My guild members just donate gold. I don't ask them to do anything at all, and I'll log in, the guild bank is 500 gold richer from one source. Also, we have an entire page of Infinite Dust since our guild formed right at 3.3 release. We sell off as much as we can and it still grows and grows.

[Bashal]

My guild members just donate gold.

Same in my guild. Also, we usually bank BoE items (in a tab only officers can withdraw from). If nobody requests the item after say, a week, we auction it and put the gold in the guild bank.

We have also in the past auctioned BoE's nobody wants at the time they drop without delay, and then divided the proceeds between the raid members present.

[Warsreign]

Though I don't know much about this looting system I would say that any forced participation into areas like gold donations or mats and such is bound to possibly cause issues. Not always but it's definately a perk for those looking for some drama to stir. Instead why not have it open to personnel reference and only those that participate in the system benefit from it's perks. This ofcourse makes the whole repairs thing hard without setting up a special rank for donators and non contributors but over all its still easily manageable and doesn't force participation people have to contribute to that they may not want to be involved with.

Recruitment over all also becomes a problem with forced participation because a lot of recruits don't want to hear they have to basically pay so much gold per set times or donate per set amount of materials to a guild whos system they have yet to fully see in action and insure it's actually being done fairly.

You me or anyone can always say things are fair but ultimately though you me or anyone may see it's fair doesn't mean everyone will and doesn't always mean we're right.

Personnelly I'd bring it up with your guild and see what they think. If you get an overabundance of individuals supporting it then obviously its the right decision. If you get negative then ofcourse you know what that means.


One think I've done for years in my guild was set up a Raid Bank system. Even pre release of the guild bank system. Where individuals who wish to donate into this system will have a chance to recieve all Gems, Enchants, Leg Armors, Helm Glyphs, ect ect ect all free from us so long as they are an active donator. This also doesn't mean just gold but the actual items themselves such as enchanting mats, leg armors, cloth, Eternals, and so forth. This has proven successful in my guild as well as a few others I help get set up for them however it doesn't work in all.

The benefits of this is that they get all there needed materials to be completely raid ready on the spot after raid is over to insure they are max raid ready. They also get a set amount of EP (we use the EPGP system) depending on the needs of the donated item (which all points earned per item is posted on our website) but can not exceed the equivelent of one boss kill in current level content per week.

At the end of the month all donations are tallied and points are added to help increase their priority on loot without actually being able to buy their way to the top of the list. Obviously if your taking in PUGS all the time this can somewhat make this system hard to manage at times however doing the roll looting may eleviate that because priority is only determined for you if one of your guild members wins the roll.

[Elahrairah]

Though I don't know much about this looting system I would say that any forced participation into areas like gold donations or mats and such is bound to possibly cause issues.

The system wouldn't be forced. Like I said, this is outside of the normal loot system, and is just used to get the guild some gold. I wouldn't even be able to make it "forced" if I wanted to, given that I intend on having 25 raiders in-guild eventually, and the system only works if approx half the group are PuGs.

Personnelly I'd bring it up with your guild and see what they think. If you get an overabundance of individuals supporting it then obviously its the right decision. If you get negative then ofcourse you know what that means.

This won't be occuring, since I'm scrapping the idea. Already posted it, but I don't blame you for missing it. It's tough to see. Will be editing the original post now. It's more work to manage, for a "Maybe kinda sorta" perk.

Anyway, the advice has been helpful, but I think I'll keep to the traditionalist way of gold making instead of this system. It was a neat idea, but I doubt it'll work.
Thanks guys.

[Warsreign]

it was 4am when I was reading the posts so yeah I missed the part about scrapping it. But I'm glad to see you've figured what plan of action to take. I definately wish you the best of luck in any system you may decide to use later on if any.

[Elahrairah]

it was 4am when I was reading the posts so yeah I missed the part about scrapping it. But I'm glad to see you've figured what plan of action to take. I definately wish you the best of luck in any system you may decide to use later on if any.

Yeah. We have our main loot system down pact (this was just an idea to make gold for the gbank). Just working on toning and refining it. Once it's finished I may post it for folks to rip at and see if there's anything wrong with it. Though the official forums are usually better for that type of thing. People can't wait to say "You're wrong" there. =P

Thanks for the well wishes. ^^

[Mctankor]

My guild members just donate gold. I don't ask them to do anything at all, and I'll log in, the guild bank is 500 gold richer from one source. Also, we have an entire page of Infinite Dust since our guild formed right at 3.3 release. We sell off as much as we can and it still grows and grows.

We have the same "problem" with our guild bank. And keeping it clean is kinda jobby even when raiding only 2 days a week. We have people steadilly deposit all sorts of mats and we get plenty of abyss crystals and other mats from raids as well. In addition everyone who does a few heroics a week will stack up on the neccesary mats anyways now that we have the disenchant option.

[Dreador]

We have the same "problem" with our guild bank. And keeping it clean is kinda jobby even when raiding only 2 days a week. We have people steadilly deposit all sorts of mats and we get plenty of abyss crystals and other mats from raids as well. In addition everyone who does a few heroics a week will stack up on the neccesary mats anyways now that we have the disenchant option.

I found a new way to get rid of some extra junk. Take all the frostweave cloth, combine with the dust and some thread and then sell the resulting 20 slot bags on the auction house. Deposit profits in the gbank and viola!

[Bashal]

My solution to the overabundance of chanting mats:

Funnel them to my Enchanter alt and give out free chants to guildies.