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Thread: Icecrown Putricide

  1. #121
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    I have a question about malleable goo. I read somewhere that it targets range kinda like shadow crash..is there a set # of range that needs to be out while the rest is on the boss or will it still hit ppl up close to boss to?

    this is what seems to kill my group, as we get a few ppl every try being hit by them as they dont see them or what not.

  2. #122
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    it only targets ranged, but I never tested how many "ranged" you need, my guess is it's similar to festergut's vomit, 3 in 10 man, and 7 in 25.

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  3. #123
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    ok..ty

  4. #124
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    I have seen some strange comments on the debuff rotations for tanks.
    The optimal debuff rotation for 25man normal with 3 tanks is 2-2-2-3-3-3-4-4-4.
    Here are the rough calc i made. Data is from my WOL log.

    Last edited by Kidate; 03-04-2010 at 01:16 AM.

  5. #125
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    Any chance, cos I'm feeling lazy, you could model - 1-1-3-3-3-4-4-4 (and yes two one's is what I want) - we do this since we've had taunt resist problems with 2-2-2-3-3-3-4-4-4 and I'd be interested to see how it compares.
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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shortypop View Post
    you could model - 1-1-3-3-3-4-4-4 (and yes two one's is what I want) - we do this since we've had taunt resist problems with 2-2-2-3-3-3-4-4-4 and I'd be interested to see how it compares.
    Output is: 900 1800 2700 3900 7200 8400 11700 12900 16200 24300 32400 40500
    Im to lazy to post another graph, but you will take some extra dmg between the 4th to the 8th debuff.
    It's still better than 3-3-3-4-4-4, but i would say you get some extra dmg when its getting really hard.

    The theory is: Keep the stacks as low as long as possible. Since dmg. grow exponentially.

  7. #127
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    Mutated Infection soaking?

    I don't know if anyone thought about this...

    Mutated infection has an ICD of roughly 10 secs, duration of 3 minutes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you could have some players take one debuff and go dpsing again. Say you have a warrior, you make a macro which makes you put a sword/shield, go in defensive stance, then a macro that pops shield block/shield wall and taunt ~7-8 seconds after previous Mutated infection. You are uncrittable and get -60% dmg (shouldn't be glyphed if its a dps war...). And you soaked a debuff.

    I see very little risk doing this, especially if Putricide casts it as soon as it is off CD... Works with warriors, could work with pain suppresion also on another plate wearer.

    Anything I'm missing with that?

  8. #128
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    aside from that fact that he'll punch any non-tank through even defensive cooldowns? I dunno, it's worth a try maybe, but the key factor is getting your healers working together and transferring stacks at an appropriate level. 2-2-2-4-4-4 seems best.

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  9. #129
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    Did the same modelling than Kidate, with his data mostly. I discriminated option D (4-4-4 rotation...) as it clearly isn't an interesting option.

    I have a hard time not believing a warrior would survive a 3-4 seconds tanking situation with a few internal and external defensive cooldowns. I did a 1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-3-3-3 modelling.



    I've considered loss in DPS from lower threat, 30 additionnal seconds of say, 75% DPS, is still better than nothing...

    Ech
    Last edited by Echtellion; 03-04-2010 at 05:31 PM.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echtellion View Post
    I have a hard time not believing a warrior would survive a 3-4 seconds tanking situation with a few internal and external defensive cooldowns. I did a 1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-3-3-3 modelling.

    I've considered loss in DPS from lower threat, 30 additionnal seconds of say, 75% DPS, is still better than nothing...

    Ech
    It's true that rotation on more ppl will decrease the raid-wide dmg. But practically I see it as almost impossible to pull off. Not considering threat, and only dmg. As a Bear i have about 32k armor (68% dmg reduction roughly estimated). The Average hit on me is about 19k dmg. I don't know warriors but I would find it surprising if they could take that dmg.

    So I would not waste my time on working out a tactic with more tanks.

  11. #131
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    I did not think I'd have to do the mathematical development...

    I'll do an example of something I know inside and outside, a warrior.

    A fully-plated Arms Warrior with mostly ilvl251-264 gear, with a decent shield (Neverending Winter), has around 24k armor. Making it 60,78% mitigation (from personnal data). With defensive stance, this goes to 64,7%. (1 - (( 1 - 0,6078) * 0,9)) = Def stance + Armor mitigation

    Also has in ICC25 context (full buffs) around 35k HPs.

    If 68% dmg reduction, brings a prof Putricide hit to 19k, this means his base hit would be roughly 60k. (from your data, this could be higher)

    So, 60k * (1 - 0,647) = 21k.

    Said:
    Pop Shield Block, means ~2k additionnal mitigation (personal tooltip: 2266 dmg blocked). 19k hit.
    Pop shield wall, 19k * (1 - 0,60) = 7,6k/hit

    Say a hit/2sec situation, with absolutly no avoidance at all, makes a 35/7,6*2 = 10 seconds TTL (round up to a full hit duration).

    Theorycrafting and calculations is nice, but this assumption needs testing and data.

    On a side note, I believe the danger is taunt immunity. So it would be rather preferable to do a 2-1-2-1-2-1-3-3-3 rotation. Average and final raid-dmg taken would be pretty similar.

    Ech

  12. #132

    PoV

    Hey, I love TS and have always used its videos to help me learn fights but I must say that the newer vids from the dps / healer point a view do not help when it comes to boss movement or tank positioning. The fight explanations are fine its just that the view from say a healer stand point is of no interest to me. While I realize the same can be said for tank view for healers I am wondering if there is any way we could get both.

  13. #133
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    PHASE 3 - Ideal Taunt Rotations Explained

    2^(n-1)
    n = number of stacks of the debuff on the tank.
    That's the equation you need to know in order to understand the exponential growth of the damage caused in phase 3. Lets say that 1 stack of the debuff does 1000 damage per tick (to keep the math simple).

    1000 * 2^(1-1) = 1000 damage per tick
    That checks out for 1 stack. Try two stacks.
    1000 * 2^(2-1) = 2000 damage per tick
    3 stacks... 4000 damage per tick
    4 stacks... 8000 damage per tick

    Now here comes the STRATEGY.
    It takes the boss a preset amount of time to stack the debuff. This means I will always have the same total amount of the debuff applied at the same point in the encounter regardless of the number of tanks it is distributed to.
    So if I have two tanks, both with a stack of 2, from the math above we said this is 2000 damage per tick. Well if there are two tanks, double it and you get 4000 damage per tick. This is half the damage of the 8000 per tick we would have if we had all 4 of those debuff stacks applied to a single tank.

    2 Tank Method
    The absolute ideal rotation for a two tank method is a leap frog approach.

    The first tank takes 1 stack... 1000 raid damage.
    The second tank takes 2 stacks... 2000 raid damage and 3000 raid damage.
    The first tank takes 2 more stacks (up to 3 now)... 4000 raid damage and 6000 raid damage.
    The second tank takes 2 more stacks (up to 4 now)... 8000 raid damage and 12000 raid damage

    This is the method that will result in the least possible damage taken by the raid.

    MT +1 stack to 1
    OT +2 stacks to 2
    MT +2 stacks to 3
    OT +2 stacks to 4
    MT +2 stacks to 5

    Or if you prefer this representation.

    MT: 1
    OT: 1-2
    MT: 2-3
    OT: 3-4
    MT: 4-5

    3 Tank Method

    Using the exact same methodology above used for the two tank method, a three tank method will actually follow a similar leap frog type pattern except it will be every other taunt which takes it for two stacks.

    The ideal method would be.

    T1: 1
    T2: 1
    T3: 1-2
    T1: 2
    T2: 2-3
    T3: 3
    T1: 3-4
    T2: 4
    T3: 4-5
    ...

    Note, this 1000 damage isn't the actual number, it was just used to show the numbers in a simple representation.
    Based on the expontential growth pattern of the Mutated Plague debuff, this leap frog method will always result in the least raid damage taken. (Provided you aren't increasing the number of tanks to include DPS or Healers.)
    Also note that this method since it has two stacks in between each taunt (2 tank) or two stacks inbetween every other taunt (3 tank) deminished returns will never result in taunt immunity.
    Last edited by Quinafoi; 03-08-2010 at 02:12 PM.
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  14. #134
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    RAID Makeup

    For this fight what has been a good makeup in relations to healers, ranged/melee dps. Weve only gotten him to like 63% using two heals, (pally and driud) and ush the green ooze will hit the player. Any tips for raid makeup would be appreciated.

  15. #135
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    We tank Putricide where the green ooze spawns, so that everyone can go nuts on it before it picks a target. Ranged stays back, then as soon as a target is chosen everyone collapses on that person to reduce damage. However, using this strat, sometimes the green slime doesn't even get to hit one person before it's dead =) Phase 3 drives me insane though. This week maybe it's just because we didn't have bloodlust, but we wiped 2 times on phase 3 due to a tank getting to 5 stacks and wiping the raid before Putricide died. We finally handed out speed pots to everyone for use in phase 3 as a ghetto BL and we downed him. We 2-heal it with a disc priest + resto druid, which feels /yawn for phases 1 and 2 and zomg rape after 4 stacks in phase 3. 4 stacks gets slowly out of hand, and 5 is more or less instant wipe.

    Some random tidbits:

    -Rogues can vanish the phase transition stuns, and dps Putricide (or a slime/cloud if you didn't get a clean transition.) I'm assuming paladins can bubble, but I don't know what other mechanics work. Apparently mage ice block/blink and Dk IBF do not, nor does undead WotF.
    -Hunters can feign if they're the target of the green slime. The slime will not choose a new target immediately, and it gives you a fair bit of extra time to dps without worrying about raid damage.
    -Resto druids with revitalize can keep rejuv and WG on the Abom to help him with his energy generation. Very handy.
    -Stick a resto druid in the tank group and Tranquility if one of their stacks get to 5 in phase 3. Will give you just a few extra seconds for at least that group before the raid wipes. Druids in other groups should do likewise, and priests can try to use Divine Hymn.

    For this fight what has been a good makeup in relations to healers, ranged/melee dps
    I think we usually use

    Prot war x2, disc priest, resto druid, arc mage, mut rogue, surv hunter, unholy dk, warlock, and usually an elemental/resto shaman, but this week we lacked a shaman, and I don't remember what we had instead. Spriest I think? Clearly not an optimal setup by any means, but it seemed to work fine. The other group has a better setup, especially as tanks go (druid/paly or paly/paly,) and hasn't downed Putricide yet =P I believe their healers are resto/bear druid, disc/shadow priest, resto/ele shaman, and a holy/ret paladin. I don't know who swaps out when they 2-heal, or what fights they 3-heal though. No clue on their dps setup either.
    Last edited by Arvandor; 03-13-2010 at 08:56 PM.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garinol View Post
    Hey, I love TS and have always used its videos to help me learn fights but I must say that the newer vids from the dps / healer point a view do not help when it comes to boss movement or tank positioning. The fight explanations are fine its just that the view from say a healer stand point is of no interest to me. While I realize the same can be said for tank view for healers I am wondering if there is any way we could get both.
    Tanks positioning of putricide (as for most bosses) is quite simple; move the boss away form the "ouches", in this case slime puddles and chocking gas bombs, so melee have a safe place to stand. Keep down unnecessary movement so your melee dps don't have to break rotation as often.

    On the non-tank taking a stack, some of our first kills on 25 man we had a feral kitty go bear, blow barkskin, throw a raid CD (PS, GS, or hand of sacrifice) on him and taunt until he picked up one stack. It may not seem like much, but that one stack will give you an extra 15-20 seconds of DPS time, as it will hold off on that last unhealable stack on one of your "regular" tanks. Obviously as DPS got better at not being hit by goo and bombs in phase three it becomes unecessary, but the extra time can be helpful for a first kill. I don't really see why a plate DPS couldn't do the same thing, they'd obviously have a smaller health pool, but a raid CD plus shield wall should make it healable for one stack.
    Last edited by Akeber; 03-14-2010 at 08:25 AM.

  17. #137
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    Can you heal the OT that is in the Abomination form if it happens to take damage.


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  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Can you heal the OT that is in the Abomination form if it happens to take damage.
    Not only should you heal it, but you should also buff it. Depending on the skill of your driver they can do decent damage with it while keeping everything else in check.
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  19. #139
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    First off thank you to everyone from Tankspot for proving these guides, they are clear, concise and extremely well thought out.

    I just have a small simple question.....

    What is the addon Thegreatme is using for his achievement pop ups? I really like the look of it.

    Thanks.

  20. #140
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    Mutated Infection soaking?
    I don't know if anyone thought about this...

    Mutated infection has an ICD of roughly 10 secs, duration of 3 minutes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you could have some players take one debuff and go dpsing again. Say you have a warrior, you make a macro which makes you put a sword/shield, go in defensive stance, then a macro that pops shield block/shield wall and taunt ~7-8 seconds after previous Mutated infection. You are uncrittable and get -60% dmg (shouldn't be glyphed if its a dps war...). And you soaked a debuff.

    I see very little risk doing this, especially if Putricide casts it as soon as it is off CD... Works with warriors, could work with pain suppresion also on another plate wearer.

    Anything I'm missing with that?
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that this strategy will leave you with 3 soakers that will take only 1 debuff. And if I understand the debuff mechanics correctly then as the fight progresses the debuff will fall off the soakers causing Putricide to heal for an unmanageable amount of health. This on top of the lost dps (and the havoc of execution with the risk of taunt immunity) makes the strategy less efficient if not impossible. Also gaining an extra 30 sec still runs the risk of the room being flooded with ooze before you can kill him.

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