Burst threat with...Mocking Blow? Strange but true!

[Tengenstein]

MB does cause DR on taunts.

[Raij]

It isn't technically a taunt. So hm?

[Tengenstein]

neithers challenging shout, nor challenging roar, but you and a friend can do a neet little trick to oprove to yourselves it does contribute to DR on taunts and thus taunt immunity.

Take a Raid boss, say a Saurfang25 HC, have you're co tank be a DK or a paladin, now get an addon to track taunts, like WhoTaunted.


now pick up the boss, after 20 seconds, have the co tank use both of his taunts in rapid succession, when you're done having rune of blood, you taunt back using both taunt, followed by mocking blow. Your co tank shouldt taunt back when you get rune of blood again, have him double taunt, the first one should stick the second one however will bring up big IMMUNE warnings, just to make double sure bung vigialnce onthe co tank at this point and spam taunt on CD. dependant on your healers and DPS, this type of experiment may cause a wipe. It certaintly stunted our progression until i convinced the other tank that he was making it go immune by double taunting on CD


MB is a fixate, Fixates and taunts share the same DRs despite them having slightly different affects.

[Ion]

It's a fixate, not a taunt.

[Raij]

Good to know, however on single tank fights, or non tank swapping fights I see no problem using it.

[praetoria]

MB is a fixate, Fixates and taunts share the same DRs despite them having slightly different affects.

I need a more indepth discussion about this. a forum link will do. how dose dr on taunt/fixate work exactly? ive had taunts come up immune quite often in my time and have only gotten answers like " someone is taunting too much " i really would like an exact understanding with what exactly "too much" is and how to ballance the line.

[Airowird]

neithers challenging shout, nor challenging roar, but you and a friend can do a neet little trick to oprove to yourselves it does contribute to DR on taunts and thus taunt immunity.

Take a Raid boss, say a Saurfang25 HC, have you're co tank be a DK or a paladin, now get an addon to track taunts, like WhoTaunted.


now pick up the boss, after 20 seconds, have the co tank use both of his taunts in rapid succession, when you're done having rune of blood, you taunt back using both taunt, followed by mocking blow. Your co tank shouldt taunt back when you get rune of blood again, have him double taunt, the first one should stick the second one however will bring up big IMMUNE warnings, just to make double sure bung vigialnce onthe co tank at this point and spam taunt on CD. dependant on your healers and DPS, this type of experiment may cause a wipe. It certaintly stunted our progression until i convinced the other tank that he was making it go immune by double taunting on CD


MB is a fixate, Fixates and taunts share the same DRs despite them having slightly different affects.

Someone was using Taunt for something besides tank swapping, and here's why:

If the Rune of Blood is applied faster than the Taunt DR timer, you can only have 5 tank swaps before you're fucked. Considering I've had a PuG with crap DPS take us 13 swaps, I doubt that's the case.
Logical conclusion: The Rune of Blood has a cooldown longer than the taunt DR timer. Therefor there is a short window after each taunt where any other taunt (or fixate) will not invoke the DR on the next 'correct' taunt.

So if you macro Taunt and Mocking Blow and use it to switch on Saurfang (or Fester, or ...) there will be no extension of the DR timer, thus no problem in any fight where taunting should be done frequently and at the same time it will provide you with a longer fixate as well as a massive threat boost, which can only help both tanks. Oh, and it also does a bit of damage

[Tengenstein]

Santoro,

Taunt Diminishing Returns: We've revised the system for diminishing returns on Taunt so that creatures do not become immune to Taunt until after 5 Taunts have landed. The duration of the Taunt effect will be reduced by 35% instead of 50% for each taunt landed. In addition, most creatures in the world will not be affected by Taunt diminishing returns at all. Creatures will only have Taunt diminishing returns if they have been specifically flagged for that behavior based on the design of a given encounter.

War Totem, I beleive its 5 per minute to create immunity; As rune of blood is applied every 20 seconds its okay for one of the tanks to double taunt every time, aslong as the other other tank never double taunts you're fine, since you end up with either 5 or 4 taunts over any 3 given swaps. Its only when both tanks Double taunt over 3 swaps in a row that it generates the immunity, as a warrior, this is bit hard as MB has long CD so as long as yout co-tank didn't double taunt on the swap before nor the one after, you're golden.

[Airowird]

I never heard of this "5 per minute' thing. I know the timer is somewhere around 18 seconds last time someone tested, but you could ofcourse test it with 4 taunts & waiting 30 seconds, that should pretty much verify your theory.
With this timer you would be able to taunt 4 times within 1 minute (only need to taunt every 18-20s) while 5 taunts within a minute spread out would indeed make the boss go immune.

And the easiest test would be Taunt, Mocking Blow, Challenging Shout, then have your OT taunt twice (DKs have Grip, Paladins RD and Bears Challenging Roar) this should make you unable to taunt for another 50+ seconds.

[Tengenstein]

and of course finding a mob that is flagged to have Taunt immunity anyway.


However, i have no idea how long the taunt immunity lasts, just that if you DG+DC first swap, Taunt+MB second swap , and DG+DC the third swap the mob is immune to the second DK's taunt and so is the next Taunt 20 secs later, after that we pretty much called it a wipe as the BP build up was far too high. great that the logs of that evening are now old enough that WoL has deleted them


spose i better go convince my guilides that we need to wipe once on saurfang 10 man in the name of science....

[Kojiyama]

Even if MB does apply to the Taunt DR, it's really not a problem. You would only want to use it in times when you needed to hold aggro for a long enough period of time for the mega-threat to be useful...I never found it to be a problem.

[praetoria]

Fyi- I learnd this the hard way last night <--- fail tank : the glyph combo dose not work on untauntable targets.. so for example heroic lady death phase 2, do not try this as you will fail miserably, just as i did

[Raij]

Doing more testing last night, I noticed a sizeable TPS increase, even though MB is on a minute CD. It works that if DPS is catching up, like fights on BQ, MB will put you above them, makes your threat a bit of a wave, with spikes, steady TPS, then a spike to get you back up. Quite nice all in all.

[praetoria]

another fyi- on surfang, i spiked over 30k tps at one point. layout was as follows:

major glyphs- barbaric insults, vig , shield wall

minor- standard however droped tk for mb

rotation was as follows:

taunt, hs, ss, sw, MB, revenge, hs, ss, dev

vigilance was on a 6500gs fury warrior. No immune taunts came up the whole fight

[Bashal]

All I'm hearing in my head is:

"...I will now use mocking blow..."

Interesting read, though. If I think I need a little oomph in my threat on some fight, now I have an idea of what to try.

[Airowird]

Santoro, get GoDevastate > Vigilance really, it helps more with starting threat and has AT LEAST as much overall TPS increase as Vigi.

[Kojiyama]

Glyph of Devastate is huge for TPS, so definitely don't want to ignore that as WarTotem mentions.