Closed Thread
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Anticipation Talent worth reconsidering ?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    17

    Anticipation Talent worth reconsidering ?

    I've been playing around with talent builds for myself for ICC and there is a little voice in the back of my head questioning putting 5/5 points in anticipation considering the 20% dodge debuff. Maybe 3/5 and the other 2 points can be used for more threat/utility. Or even 5 points somewhere else entirely.

    Maybe I am just over thinking things, but I would like to know what some other people think on this.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    189
    IMHO - The -20% debuff to dodge makes the talent *more* valuable. Not less.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On the cloud.
    Posts
    2,280
    At this point in the game, Anticipation is not subject to either diminishing returns or rating setbacks like dodge on your gear. It's flat 5% no matter what, and this is a good thing worth taking. Also, however many points you place in Shield Specialization are only made better, ragewise, by this talent, because dodge is rolled before block on the hit table. Where would you spend the 5 points?


    EDIT: Just checked your armory. Couple things that you could improve on overall.

    Cleave: Don't ever spec or glyph for it, use shield wall or taunt glyph if you need to, cleave is best-suited for tanks who never, ever raid. The talent points are better spent in heroic strike, for instance.

    Gems: Get rid of the hit and expertise gems. You have enough expertise on your gear to get you softcapped, each purple gem you use only gets you one skill, 15 stam trumps that. As long as you have 26 skill and 1 red socket for the meta, you're good to go. Hit is not necessary as a warrior, if it's for taunt sensitive fights, use glyph of taunt and vigilance. Fill those sockets with 30 stam as well.

    Finally, enchants. 275 health to chest is superior, 18 stam to shield is superior, 30 stam/15 resil for shoulders is superior, mongoose or blood draining is superior for weapons, stamina or armor is better for gloves, parry rating sucks and 2% threat you should not need if you press your buttons correctly, and some might venture to state that Tuskarr's 15 stam + speed increase is superior for boots. Replace that hit trinket as well, you don't need it and could use more stamina there too.

    I would also make one spec for threat, using Deep Wounds and Impale, and one for survival. You don't need to spec for trash, it's trash.

    Your stats will be pushed into the awesome level if you made these drastic gear changes.
    Last edited by Dreadski; 01-06-2010 at 11:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,405
    Dropping Avoidance will never make you take less damage. The Icecrown Radiance does not change the values of each stat compared to the other. Please do not fall for that fallacy.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    17
    Now that I have played around with the talent calculator some more, I guess nowhere really... I guess I was underestimating the value of the talent.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Cleave: Don't ever spec or glyph for it, use shield wall or taunt glyph if you need to, cleave is best-suited for tanks who never, ever raid. The talent points are better spent in heroic strike, for instance.
    Excuse me? I'll grant that specing into cleave for most situations is non-optimal, but it is optimal for H-25 Anub, I dare say tanks that do that boss raid a bit. Also, on any fight where you need to manage more than 2 adds (deathwhisper for example, or pretty much most trash pulls) cleave/glyph of cleave is amazing, and if you're doing 5 mans you should DEFINITELY have it glyphed.

    Now for single target MTing, yes you're totally right, but don't make such a brash overarching statement like that. I raid a lot and use glyph of cleave A LOT. I carry around literally stacks of that glyph.

    Edit: back on topic though, DEFINITELY spec into anticipation, the above posters are all correct. Like... what else are going to put the points into? If you want 5/5 shield block you can get the points elsewhere, no need to kick spec'd survivability in the nuts.
    Last edited by Aggathon; 01-06-2010 at 11:56 AM.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On the cloud.
    Posts
    2,280
    TOGC = last month's raid. There's no boss situation, yes I'm including LDW, that calls for it. Even with Anub's 4 adds, it's only 1 extra target. TotT + FoK or MD + Volley. Thunderclap, SW and clicktarget devastate. Sure, cleave might make it easier but it's definitely FAR from gamebreaking. Excuse me too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Cleave: Don't ever spec or glyph for it, use shield wall or taunt glyph if you need to, cleave is best-suited for tanks who never, ever raid. The talent points are better spent in heroic strike, for instance.

    Gems: Get rid of the hit and expertise gems. You have enough expertise on your gear to get you softcapped, each purple gem you use only gets you one skill, 15 stam trumps that. As long as you have 26 skill and 1 red socket for the meta, you're good to go. Hit is not necessary as a warrior, if it's for taunt sensitive fights, use glyph of taunt and vigilance. Fill those sockets with 30 stam as well.

    Finally, enchants. 275 health to chest is superior, 18 stam to shield is superior, 30 stam/15 resil for shoulders is superior, mongoose or blood draining is superior for weapons, stamina or armor is better for gloves, parry rating sucks and 2% threat you should not need if you press your buttons correctly, and some might venture to state that Tuskarr's 15 stam + speed increase is superior for boots. Replace that hit trinket as well, you don't need it and could use more stamina there too.

    I would also make one spec for threat, using Deep Wounds and Impale, and one for survival. You don't need to spec for trash, it's trash.

    Your stats will be pushed into the awesome level if you made these drastic gear changes.
    The cleave stuff is for heroics only really (3k dps lol). I had logged out with the hit trink on while messing around this morning and is not what I usually run with. My main tank spec will be the deep wounds spec again (I was testing something else out... I spend alot of gold re-specing,re-gemming and re-glyphing just to satisfy my curiosity...).

    I will definitely look into the 275 health to chest and the stam for the shield. I really like Bladewarding... I found it has helped my threat a lot. I have some other tanking weps I'll try the other enchants on just to compare. For some reason i thought the expertise needed was 32.... I will be regemming for sure. I had gemmed for hit as I was missing alot of taunts, I think I will consider the glyph for it.

    Thanks for all the info!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    EDIT: Just checked your armory. Couple things that you could improve on overall.

    Gems: Get rid of the hit and expertise gems. You have enough expertise on your gear to get you softcapped, each purple gem you use only gets you one skill, 15 stam trumps that. As long as you have 26 skill and 1 red socket for the meta, you're good to go. Hit is not necessary as a warrior, if it's for taunt sensitive fights, use glyph of taunt and vigilance. Fill those sockets with 30 stam as well.

    Finally, enchants. 275 health to chest is superior, 18 stam to shield is superior, 30 stam/15 resil for shoulders is superior, mongoose or blood draining is superior for weapons, stamina or armor is better for gloves, parry rating sucks and 2% threat you should not need if you press your buttons correctly, and some might venture to state that Tuskarr's 15 stam + speed increase is superior for boots. Replace that hit trinket as well, you don't need it and could use more stamina there too.

    I would also make one spec for threat, using Deep Wounds and Impale, and one for survival. You don't need to spec for trash, it's trash.

    Your stats will be pushed into the awesome level if you made these drastic gear changes.
    Piss on anyone who deals in absolutes. When it comes to end-game raiding, survivability and threat are key. I have always hated stamina-stacking, deep wounds specs. If you did hit-cap, you likely would not need deep wounds to keep threat, and would never miss a taunt. In addition, without using the deep wounds spec, you would not gimp your survivability.

    Your stats will not be pushed to an awesome level with these gear changes, your avoidance will be dropped and your hp upped a relatively-insignificant amount. Many sockets these days provide between +6 and +12 stamina, which can be quite beneficial when trying to BALANCE a gear set. There was little hit rating in T9, there is little expertise in T10. I hate to break it to ya, but chances are people will be gemming expertise just to hit the softcap.

    T9 gear brought HP up to a level where you hit the minimum Effective Health walking into ICC, if you are geared. It is time to use the gear you have to balance needs for tanking beyond Effective Health.
    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    122
    I love glyph of cleave. I swap between it and last stand mainly. A lot of times I forget and leave cleave on. No biggie. Though I'm sure I won't forget when it comes time to do say, heroic festergut.

    And yeah, don't even think about not speccing into anticipation. You'd be imprisoned in most parts of the world for even bringing it up.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Bayho View Post
    Piss on anyone who deals in absolutes. When it comes to end-game raiding, survivability and threat are key. I have always hated stamina-stacking, deep wounds specs. If you did hit-cap, you likely would not need deep wounds to keep threat, and would never miss a taunt. In addition, without using the deep wounds spec, you would not gimp your survivability.

    Your stats will not be pushed to an awesome level with these gear changes, your avoidance will be dropped and your hp upped a relatively-insignificant amount. Many sockets these days provide between +6 and +12 stamina, which can be quite beneficial when trying to BALANCE a gear set. There was little hit rating in T9, there is little expertise in T10. I hate to break it to ya, but chances are people will be gemming expertise just to hit the softcap.

    T9 gear brought HP up to a level where you hit the minimum Effective Health walking into ICC, if you are geared. It is time to use the gear you have to balance needs for tanking beyond Effective Health.
    Aren't we fiesty. In a 25 man raid, what survivability do you lose by going with a deep wounds spec? You can pick up everything you need then you don't need to gear towards threat at all. The only thing is maybe not 5/5 commanding presence depending on your fury warriors, ours run with 4/5 usually, and in most cases it's good enough, but I have picked up the 5/15/51 spec just in case I need it for 10 mans or 25s, for the most part it's been nice but not really necessary. Warrior imp demo is only 3 more AP than feral druid's imp demo, which is REALLY easy for them to pick up.

    Other than that, you don't sacrifice anything in the prot tree for deep wounds, and then you really don't need to worry about threat gearing at all.

    I find your brash statements a bit short sighted.

    Also, balance is overrated at not needed beyond what is innate on gear. You might not like it, but blame blizzard, stam stacking is just what we do, like pallies stack int or resto druids stack sp.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  12. #12
    At your level of gear, I would agree you are correct. At our level of gear, I will take my balance and avoidance over his less than 1000 more hp.

    Saying you do not need hit rating and deep wounds spec is the only way to go for end-game raiding is flat out wrong, as far as I am concerned.
    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Bayho View Post
    At your level of gear, I would agree you are correct. At our level of gear, I will take my balance and avoidance over his less than 1000 more hp.

    Saying you do not need hit rating and deep wounds spec is the only way to go for end-game raiding is flat out wrong, as far as I am concerned.
    I'm confused, you say at my gear level you would agree, but it's not the thing to do for end-game raiding... did you even armory me?
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    533
    Or you can just use dualspec, deep wounds spec with threat glyphs and survivability spec with imp. shieldwall, imp. demo shout and all the other goodies.
    Crommi | Archaic Order | Lightning's Blade EU

  15. #15
    You are in Heroic 25 level gear, which enables you to gear more significantly than us walking into ICC. You have 5,000 more HP and Armor, but 6% less avoidance and 4% less block. Your healers are probably geared and excel, and you have a feral to debuff for you, as you mentioned.

    My point is that gearing is dependent on what you have available on yourself and in your guild. Saying that Blood Draining and Deep Wounds spec is the only way to go, is wrong. I need to take less damage in a raid for my raid to survive, whereas you can likely get away with taking more damage. For the moment, we are tanking the same content, we just have to do it two different ways. Stam stacking and losing avoidance and block, along with the AP debuff, for 2000 HP and deep wounds, would wipe my raid rather fast in ICC.
    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Crommi View Post
    Or you can just use dualspec, deep wounds spec with threat glyphs and survivability spec with imp. shieldwall, imp. demo shout and all the other goodies.
    If all you do is tank and nothing else. Sometimes you need a tank to DPS, and I often do not have people sitting around to swap in and out if a tank is not needed.
    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On the cloud.
    Posts
    2,280
    Since you pretty much just took a hostile stance on my post without actually reading the words, I'm not going to argue with you, but you are the only one dealing in absolutes here, not me. I gave *options*. And there's plenty of expertise on ICC gear, open your eyes.
    Last edited by Dreadski; 01-07-2010 at 09:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    16,438
    Well this got nasty.

    Thread closed.

    READ THIS: Posting & Chat Rules
    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
    I will never be a kaz.. no one can reach the utter awesomeness of you.
    http://i.imgur.com/3vbQi.gif

Closed Thread

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts