Rogue DPS help

[Coro]

Hello,

The World of Warcraft Armory is my armory. I am looking for advise on what I can do increase my DPS. In fights like ToC10, I'm barely breaking 4.5-5k dps, and being told that with my gear I should be at 6-7k dps.

My rotation is 3SnD, 4-5 Rupture (depending on combo points), 4-5 Evisc to open, then I just renew SnD every time it's less then five secs and I have 3 combo up, keep rupture up (again either 4 or 5 comb point), and Evisc between.

Currently, I'm gemming to match the sockets, and I'm thinking that might be what I need to fix. I just am getting mixed answers on if I should be gemming to arm pen or agi. I know some of the answer the answers I might get are "spreadsheet lol", but I do not know excel well, and it's all over my head, and I apologize.

Thanks in advance.

[Volador]

Everything about your char screams it's correct and you should be doing great DPS. Except gemming, you are at the point where you should gem EVERY socket (minus one to meet meta requirements) with ArPen. In the other socket you should be using a Nightmare Tear.

As for DPS, you should be pushing higher than you're talking about on (s)low movement fights (Beasts, Jarraxus, and Anub for sure, and depending on how it's done - Twins).

[Padinbann]

i kinda disagree with ya in some points but mostly the ArP part if he cant get between 85-100% arp its not working gemming for it yet Grim toll or the H thorium 10 man for my rogue whos basically in the same gear level as you i dont worry about socket bonuses i just do pure Agi except for the +10 stats blue for my meta here is a link for a rogue spreadsheet that will help u with DPS u put your gear in here and it will tell u how much DPS each gem will give you roughly agi for me gives 40.11 per gem and arp gives ~36
Rogue Gear Spreadsheet - Elitist Jerks i THINK this is the right one i cant tell from this computer no excel ><! let me know if it is ill fix it if it isnt

[Coro]

Also, I forgot to mention it but I got Gouge of the Frigid Heart - Item - World of Warcraft and Stygian Bladebreaker - Item - World of Warcraft

I was hearing that muti is pulling ahead (now, and big time in 3.3), should I go with that or focus on combat since I have 2 equal axes and orc axe spec?

[Padinbann]

Yes by what i was told mutilate is pulling ahead by ~3k DPS i would start working on daggers if i was you but keep the axes i keep fumbling the Mutilate rotation which makes me lose ~500 DPS its alittle difficult for me to do since i've ben combat forever but do able
garrote HfB 3 CPS SnD 5 CPS Rupture 5 CPs Envenom seems easy but fumble the rotation and dps is lost i just have to practice it more. but again yes i would work on some daggers preferable Main hand = 1.8 and a offhand of 1.4-1.6 Instant poison MH and Deadly off-hand specs are easy to come by so GL

[vine]

Personally I ignore socket bonuses and stick Agi in every socket. Just think of sockets as slots for whatever stat will give you the most dps, ignore the bonuses.

Also swap your boot enchant to Tuskar's Vitality, or Cat's Swiftness. Run speed enchants are much better for your dps than AP.

[Padinbann]

feet enchant actually depend on your gear u have atm for instance icebreaker (12 hit/13 crit) pulls ahead of everything else for me but it may not be the same for other rogues depends on gear.

[Coro]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm gonna start practicing muti, and go with all my gems agi, and I'll change my enchant to tuskars vitality. Oh, an expensive day indeed.

[Padinbann]

nothing about rogues is cheap =) we are full of win

[Krenian]

Yes by what i was told mutilate is pulling ahead by ~3k DPS i would start working on daggers if i was you but keep the axes i keep fumbling the Mutilate rotation which makes me lose ~500 DPS its alittle difficult for me to do since i've ben combat forever but do able
garrote HfB 3 CPS SnD 5 CPS Rupture 5 CPs Envenom seems easy but fumble the rotation and dps is lost i just have to practice it more. but again yes i would work on some daggers preferable Main hand = 1.8 and a offhand of 1.4-1.6 Instant poison MH and Deadly off-hand specs are easy to come by so GL

Rupture will begin losing it's priority come 3.3 due to some changes that they're doing with Muti. The rotation will be pretty silly simple:

SnD 4+, Envenom 4+ x1204897013957230753

[Padinbann]

if this is true i will have to change my spec as well to get rid of increased damage on bleed effects and hopefully find a better place for them

[BruisedOoze]

The feet enchants are for increasing your DPS activity time, or rather to increase the total damage you can do. Squeezing in extra damage because of an extra second or two makes up for a large amount of time where your DPS will be smaller. Where there is a fair bit of mobility in ToC, it not only increases your on target time, but makes movement even easier.

[BruisedOoze]

Rupture will begin losing it's priority come 3.3 due to some changes that they're doing with Muti. The rotation will be pretty silly simple:

SnD 4+, Envenom 4+ x1204897013957230753

Well with the weapon swapping, and the addon that got rid of much of the risk associated with it, this was already starting to happen. However, as you are saying, with more accessible higher gear levels, you will see this FAR more frequently and would become the norm.

And this makes me sad. Sure there's that tiny element of maximizing the envenom buff, but you're still pressing essentially two buttons. We're going to be the melee of frost mages heh. Maybe time for me to focus on that combat set.

[Coro]

Would blood spatter talent still be viable then, or would those points be better spent otherwise? I know we should open with Garrote which is why I ask, although maybe a talent into vigor would be good, or ?

Edit: Same with glyphs. Would SnD be more viable, or is vigor talent and vigor glyph good? I'd guess SnD though.

[BruisedOoze]

Would blood spatter talent still be viable then, or would those points be better spent otherwise? I know we should open with Garrote which is why I ask, although maybe a talent into vigor would be good, or ?

Edit: Same with glyphs. Would SnD be more viable, or is vigor talent and vigor glyph good? I'd guess SnD though.

Yes, in a ruptureless mutilate build you drop blood splatter, and usually the points go into something like Fleet-footed for mobility, which doesn't stack with the mobility boot enchant so you can go for the DPS boot enchants. Garrote is only to get a bleed up quickly for Hunger for Blood (the damage is a bonus). Plus the extra combo point is used for SnD. Plus bosses are immune to stuns so there isn't really an alternative. Cheap shot gives an extra combo point but you can quickly get SnD to max duration through the envenom anyways.

You also drop Relentless strikes in favor of pushing for Lightning Strikes (melee haste and extra crit along the way). With 3.3 especially this results in more poison procs, which is the focus of the ruptureless build.

Maintaining SnD in Mutilate is not really a problem at all, as opposed to combat where it can drop if it's not manually refreshed. With the ruptureless build since all you're doing is envenoming the glyph is just going to add a lot more wasted seconds and a wasted glyph. In fights you know you're going to have to move for a bit you always would envenom before breaking from the target anyways to try and prevent this.

So the best glyph left is tricks of the Trade. This is a personal DPS loss (ignoring T10 bonuses) but is a huge DPS boost for others in your raid. And giving another DPS 4 seconds of bonus damage is good.

Edit: Maybe Glyph Fan of Knives instead of tricks for the extra AoE damage.

[Stinkweasel]

This is a great thread, guys.

As the person that started this thread, I really feel that with my gear level I should be pushing significantly higher DPS and I am struggling to see what I am missing. So I am looking for a build and rotation revamp to squeeze out what I can.

Now that 3.3 is upon us I am really intrigued about the Ruptureless build and I think I am gonna give it a go. It's gonna feel really weird 2 buttoning heh. Now I have a question about gemming for that build.

I have heard that Attack Power is where it's at once again and I wanted to see if anyone agreed with that before I go spending all my gold on 1000 new gems
I am currently in all agility gems minus the new pieces I have acquired from ICC, which have AP gems. I wonder if it's worth changing the gems now or as I get new gear put in AP gems.

Thanks a lot.

[Mave]

This is a great thread, guys.

As the person that started this thread, I really feel that with my gear level I should be pushing significantly higher DPS and I am struggling to see what I am missing. So I am looking for a build and rotation revamp to squeeze out what I can.

Now that 3.3 is upon us I am really intrigued about the Ruptureless build and I think I am gonna give it a go. It's gonna feel really weird 2 buttoning heh. Now I have a question about gemming for that build.

I have heard that Attack Power is where it's at once again and I wanted to see if anyone agreed with that before I go spending all my gold on 1000 new gems
I am currently in all agility gems minus the new pieces I have acquired from ICC, which have AP gems. I wonder if it's worth changing the gems now or as I get new gear put in AP gems.

Thanks a lot.

Switch out your Agi gems for AP gems, especially if you're Mut. With the change to Deadly Poison proc rate and mechanics, AP is absolutely amazing. To make the poison changes shine even more, there's a new Mutilate spec (Link to spec here)

Also, you're over expertise cap (it's 26). Does switching your 15 Expertise enchant drop you below 26 Expertise? If it doesn't, get Crusher and you're golden.

In terms of rotation, The Mut rotation is very simple.

1. Open with Garrote (if no one is applying bleeds, if not Mut)
2. SnD
3. HfB
4. Mutilate until 4+ Combo Points
5. Envenom.

Repeat 4 & 5 while doing 3 when it's about to drop. Best of luck to you!

[Stinkweasel]

Thank you so much, Mave. I had already made those changes. Last night as a matter of fact. Seeing a slight DPS increase. Still getting used to a 2 button rotation opposed to 4 or 5.

I think I am going to take the points out of Fleet footed though and dump them into Opportunity. I appreciate being able to move a little faster is nice in ICC but I think that 20% damage increase on my mutilates may be a higher benefit. I will let you know what I find.

[Mave]

Thank you so much, Mave. I had already made those changes. Last night as a matter of fact. Seeing a slight DPS increase. Still getting used to a 2 button rotation opposed to 4 or 5.

I think I am going to take the points out of Fleet footed though and dump them into Opportunity. I appreciate being able to move a little faster is nice in ICC but I think that 20% damage increase on my mutilates may be a higher benefit. I will let you know what I find.

You won't be able to do that without dropping HfB since you need it to get the 50 Talent points into Assassination. Based on the "free" points you have, it's best to keep them in Fleet Footed for fights where you move a lot like Deathwhisper.

[Zxian]

You won't be able to do that without dropping HfB since you need it to get the 50 Talent points into Assassination. Based on the "free" points you have, it's best to keep them in Fleet Footed for fights where you move a lot like Deathwhisper.

QFT. (Sorry for the 1337-speek)

But in all seriousness - don't underestimate the value of getting on target sooner. If you're ever going to consider going back to ToGC, many guilds require raiders to have some sort of movement speed boost - either as part of their spec or an enchant/meta (You don't get a sprint when Icehowl charges). Switching essences on Twins, staying on Emalon for an extra second or two before nova, running away from Marrowgar, switching targets on Deathwhisper, etc etc etc. All of these are cases where the 15% movement speed comes in very handy.

One addon that I would HIGHLY recommend as a rogue is Rogue Power Bars. You can see the bars configured here in my screenshot (there's a mirroring bar on the right-side for target debuffs). It lets you put your buff/debuff timers in a location that's easy to see, and is (in my opinion) much easier to follow than looking up at your buff timers.