If group members aren't capable of time-stopping or avoiding those white balls for ~2+ whipes in a row (after i make sure they know what to do) i bail, otherwise i see no reason to do so really.
dreador.. sorry m8 but this thread has gone way way way too far.
i cant even remember what case you were trying to make.
my point was simply i do not like the instance, i do not like the design and i certainly, like others do not really consider having to hop on and off a fancy coloured drake and spamming 2 buttons and running (ok flying) backwards and then forwards for 5 seconds ...fun or anywhere close to tanking a group of adds or a boss in any other instance/raid that is available to me.
The very fact that blizzard have nerfed the encounter to the point of dumbass and by enticing people "not" to bypass it by luring more and more people back to it by offering a blue drake as a possible loot drop, is in my opinion a poor decision by blizz and reflects its unpopularity, particularly when no other heroic has needed this level of intervention.
No other instance (other than CoS) attracts so much disdain and long winded discussion over its merits/failures and as people have pointed out here, people just dont like it.
It is no way a means of grading a good vs bad player or tank by the very fact that they choose not to go there.
I am intelligent enough to make a decision and yes i realise it impacts on groups when i do bail and i simply state, sorry guys its occulus, im out. Its my choice not yours or theirs.
Most of the time im doing the daily heroics for other peoples benefit as they land groups faster when paired with a tank. The frost badges are nice dont get me wrong but i really dont need anything that bad that i cant get from doing something different.
So im sorry if this thread has gone away from topic, im sorry i have had to re-iterate my position again and im sorry to the groups of dps that are sitting there looking for a tank to hit an instance where the last boss you dont need a tank class to kill it.
Selfish, probably but only in this one case. I do enough for a lot of other groups and people get a lot out of me when i am looking to play an alt and they ask me to log my tank and run with them to help them.
And as for the green drake aspect.. just because i havent played the green drake on one char doesnt mean i havent on another.
So im going to agree with the OP. if the random is occulus, im still going to choose to apologise and leave grp.
I've only had one wipe in Oculus since the new LFG system. I haven't ever gotten anyone else that knows what they're doing in there unless they came with me from my guild. It's not difficult to explain, and it's difficult for even 1 or 2 morons to screw up. Anyone that drops it now is, in fact, wasting their time.
The point is, robbon, when a DPS bails on your Occulus group, you wait a maximum of 5 seconds for a new one. When the tank bails, the group has to wait 10-15 or more for a new tank, that is, if the group doesn't fall apart and give everyone 15 minute debuffs. You're wasting more than just your own time when you ditch, which is what makes you a prick when you do so. You could take a moment and check everyone's experience, explain a thing or two about the drakes and make the run quick and easy, or waste everyone's time and bail like a coward. Skill, bugginess, encounter design aside. Sure, you may never see these people again, doesn't change a thing. You still abandoned them and that doesn't speak well of a tank or a leader.
I am certainly not a prick, so please dont ever call me one. Because i choose not to fulfill an encounter which i am randomly dropped in to is certainly not cowardness so how dare you even state that.
Your last post is unfortunately insultive and abusive.
Blizzard could easily change this by making the acceptance of the random heroic a click rather than a drop in or give me the option to not accept but then that i suppose defeats the object of randomness.
My opinion about the instance does not change.
My opinion about you however, has. Which is unfortunate as i have never had anyone be abusive to me or any other poster on this forum.
The OP posted about the fact that he like others will bail on occulus as we do not like it, i agreed with him.
If this thread is simply going to become a forum for you to insult other players then it should be locked now and deleted.
No personal offense intended, but I stand behind my opinion. You as a tank are entrusted with leading the group successfully, and by leaving you fail them, bottom line.
EDIT: Also, think whatever you want about me, your opinion is your freedom and I could care less regardless.
It just seems silly that people would drop group in an instance that can be completed before, or right around when the Dungeon Cooldown ends, even with fail puggers. I'm not exaggerating as I've done this in every Oc run that I've been in thus far, and most of the people haven't known Oculus very well. I even did a fight on ley-guardian Eregos with no time stops, despite me giving the DPS their time-stop order and telling them when to use it.
I will also add that even though what Dreador said is harsh, it's something I've experienced on my DPS class. On my Tank I'm good, if I don't leave, DPS tends to come right in. But on my Warlock I tend to wait 20 minutes just to be queued in. When a Tank leaves, I still have 15 minutes on my dungeon cooldown, with likely another 20 minutes to wait while in queue. So I sit tight for the tank, which often takes the length of the dungeon cooldown as it is. So I don't get to start the instance until a full 35 minutes after I queued up. The tank who dropped will be in another in 15.
This topic is especially rage-filled for me, I've had the entire group leave on me in the first 20 seconds. I wanted my 15 minute run for 2 frost badges, not to wait an additional 15 minutes because someone lazy, or afraid or whateverexcuseyouhave, didn't want to run, and x4 people in these cases. Screw that. It's there, it's simple, just run it.
Consider this, and realize that I have not yet been hostile so there is nothing hostile or personal in this post:
When you play a game, you play it to have fun. So, your initial thought when getting into Oculus might be "I don't like this place, no fun. *leave*". It's a perfectly reasonable thought and likely the one that most people have when they do it. Unfortunately, it misses a very important aspect of MMOs. Other players.
You're not the only player in the game and not the only one trying to have fun, and this seems to be something that people don't consider in their actions when playing. This goes beyond simply leaving a group and goes on to the Rogue that thinks it's "fun" to ToT the Tank and run ahead, or the Mage who aggros another target in the pull aside from what the tank is targeting. These things may be "fun" for those people, but they make the game "not fun" for others, and that's why people tend to frown on them.
In a similar way, when you leave a group only for the sole reason of "I don't like this instance" you are also hurting someone else's experience, their expense for your own. It is entirely your decision to make, but there is some element of selfishness when you consider it fully, when you consider what other players might have to go through that you do not when you leave the instance simply because you do not like it.
It's not a nice or pretty picture. I don't think you a jerk or selfish. But that action does have selfishness woven into it. It's something to consider.
It should also be noted that there's a reason you get the cooldown upon entering the group and not when leaving it early. Because, if a group is truly failing, then you probably should leave. At that point they're dragging you down and it's entirely worth it to be a little selfish and leave, because they've done nothing to help you have fun.
But the point is people still wont run it no matter what blizz do to entice people to try it.
My own personal experience of the instance is negative. If it was the first instance ever run in wow i would probably have stopped playing there and then.
Once blizz change tanking in cataclysm you wont have this problem of 15min timers for tanks.
As for wait times - we have a guild, we have players who have alts and we all have alts dps/healers/tanks we try, as much as possible to pair with groups in the guild for the random daily at the least.. this cuts queue times and ensures a moderate amount of communication and speed. It also pretty much guarentees success at minimal time/cost.
For an entire group to leave you in 20 seconds doesnt say anything about you or your ability as a tank..its the instance. As for your ability to lead..sure you probably could baby sit them through it but the fact remains "People simply dont like it". For a lot of people this is a fun game and occulus sucks the fun right out of it for them.
This entire thread is not about trying to convert you to the "i hate occulus and it should be removed from the game" camp or converting me to the "its piss easy just run it" - even if you have to re-train every nab dps that drops in to the run and doesnt know how to dismount camp.
The thread is about the fact that blizzard know people hate it, blizzard know that the majority bail on it and they want to change that by enticing you in with phat loot.
The problem is, people still dont like it and a different coloured loot is no carrot.
Got Oculus as the random on my DK last night. The healer immediately left, and the tool replaced him in 15 seconds. Group proceeded, had no problems, got the Make It Count achievement with 5 minutes to spare (even with the new healer dismounting before he got to the Cloudstrider platform and us waiting for him to run back), and I got a bag with 2 Triumph and 3 Sky Sapphires in it. Bags seemed to all have 2 Triumph and 2-3 blue gems.
lulia - i do not disagree. i really dont.
I'm personally stoked about the loot, I want that blue dragon. I hope I get Oculus.
The instance I always hope I don't get is H. HoR. That place SUCKS to tank.
HoR is a different thread alltogether. Its a hard place to tank for some and yes its driven by the group you get, not just the tank and yep i admit i grimace when i get it as a random.
But unlike occulus HoR WILL require you to use all of your tanking abilities and skill. Most importantly you dont have to use a drake/machine etc to complete it.
I have not personally had Occulos come up as a random yet, however all my guildees that have had it come up have got stories of how easy it is and that it can probably be 3 or 4 manned and so on. The nerfs that have been made certainly seem to back this up as people were getting the timed achievement a year ago and people can not have worse gear than that and yet it easier than a year ago.
More worrying imo is something that was said in /g the other week by a new player that they would never do occ based purely on the fact that they had heard so much about it and were not even willing to give it a chance I personall feel sad for people like that as it can be a fun instance regardless of previous posters opinions and these people will never know that due to reading a lot of bad things about it
Anyway heres to hoping I get Occ as my random today
i also hate occulus after bleeding from the eyes and wanting to destroy my computer this place just brings back bad memories i dont think bad of anyone who bails on it.
sometimes i bail sometimes i dont depends on my mood at the time
Yes, there's a lot of Oc hatred that stems from newbies hearing stories and it also makes me sad. I actually managed to stop one from leaving once, and he had never done it before. He was going to leave simply because he had heard others say how much they hated Oc. But it's their choice whether or not to base their opinions on what others have said and not the fault of the people who dislike Oculus.