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Thread: Why Tanks aren't in the LFG queue

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    Hehehe, I actually enjoy that. There's a rogue in my guild that likes to pop engineering boots and zip ahead and ToT/FoK packs of stuff onto me as I'm running along. Keeps me occupied and moving along. =D
    OMG nothing makes me happier than a rogue or hunter with engineering.

    I LOVE IT WHEN THEY RUN AHEAD AND PULL 3 PACKS WITH TRICKS/MD AFTER ROCKET BOOTING!!!!!

    (that's not sarcasim either I genuinely would give them a cookie for that every time they did it if I could)



  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliena View Post
    Queuing as healer on Aliena I pretty much get instant queues, always. Not sure why but I've never waited more than half a minute. It is kinda nice. Apart from 2 tanks I've had pretty good luck with them so far, too.
    Never waited longer than 10 seconds as a tank!

    @ Bovinity - As long as you're fine with it, clearly that tank wasn't.

    Edit: I'd probably like it too. Though if the group is good enough to handle it, I'm probably moving fast enough to pick up enough for the group anyways.

  3. #83
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    is so much of pressure tanking,and when its your first time tanking and reaching endgame its even worse
    now im gaining confidence with my tanking doing some 10 mans but i cant really do 25 right now (just some with guild but not pugs) people sometiems its just a game and they arent willing to help anyone that is "lower" than them
    its stupid because same people who blame tanks on lfg and disencourage them to tank are the ones whinning about not having enough tanks available in pugs

  4. #84
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    I'm tanking on my lvl 78 warrior. I always mark a skull to give the non-aoe classes something to focus on. For some reason the spriest keeps pulling threat on off targets so I glance at omen and see that he's doesn't have a spec of threat on skull. So I tell him that I'm marking skull as a primary kill target and if he's going to focus fire that should be the one. His response is something like "it takes too long for me to build up damage and skull will die too fast, just thunderclap more". /facepalm

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenier View Post
    And finally, leveling my Mage through the mid 30s and every single group I had, had a Paladin tank... which was ret spec'd. Seriously wth?

    This cracks me up!

    In two weeks of trying I still haven't been able to get through a full Scarlett monastery because of Fury Warriors and Ret Pallies thinking they can tank.

    I refuse to ask my guild for help though, now its like a crusade with me to get it done purely with a Pug.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    Hehehe, I actually enjoy that. There's a rogue in my guild that likes to pop engineering boots and zip ahead and ToT/FoK packs of stuff onto me as I'm running along. Keeps me occupied and moving along. =D
    The thing is, different tanks have different comfort levels. If you do that on a tank who's just getting back into WoW after a couple of months absence, you're likely to stress her out. Doing this stuff without asking is pretty rude, but totally fine if consensual.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenier View Post
    And finally, leveling my Mage through the mid 30s and every single group I had, had a Paladin tank... which was ret spec'd. Seriously wth?
    Because low level paladin protection talents are worse for tanking than low level retribution talents. You get a lot of mitigation stuff that you don't need or for which there's equivalent in the retribution tree (dodge vs. parry is a wash), you can't get Spiritual Attunement until level 40, etc. Seal of Command + Vindication + Deflection is probably better for tanking at low levels than all of the first six tiers of the protection tree put together.

  8. #88
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    My bear tank is rarely in the dungeon system, but the reason isn't fail pugs, it's helping guildies.

    There are a lot more DPSers in our guild than tanks, even counting alts. Generally speaking, I'll tank the daily random for three DPSers on my bear, then one of them will swap to their tank and run my warlock through. My healer rarely waits long in the queue so I don't worry about her so much, but I can almost guarantee I'll get a request to heal a daily random from someone I know.

    With so many requests from guild DPS for randoms, there's really no reason whatsoever for me to use the random dungeon finder. I'm willing to bet a lot of other tanks find themselves in the same situation.

  9. #89
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    The only reason I'm not in LFG is because I queue up in 2 seconds. God I love tanking.

    True Knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
    Agg's tanking guide

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inaara View Post
    The only reason I'm not in LFG is because I queue up in 2 seconds. God I love tanking.
    this

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    I will never be a kaz.. no one can reach the utter awesomeness of you.
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  11. #91
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    I just start every LFG PuG with " You pull it , you tank it " and normally everyting goes ok, yeah there are some jerks in there, but the majority are not so bad. If it gets real bad ( like that DK that kept putting his D&D in my face before pulls or that Hunter that kept sending his pet after mobs), i just drop group.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roana View Post
    Because low level paladin protection talents are worse for tanking than low level retribution talents. You get a lot of mitigation stuff that you don't need or for which there's equivalent in the retribution tree (dodge vs. parry is a wash), you can't get Spiritual Attunement until level 40, etc. Seal of Command + Vindication + Deflection is probably better for tanking at low levels than all of the first six tiers of the protection tree put together.
    This.


    Until about level 60, you can tank dungeons as a Ret paladin or a Non-prot warrior. It's tougher on the healer but nowhere near impossible. I healed a rogue that tanked much of Mauradon because the tank left. It's still possible even through 60, but as levels increase it becomes even tougher on the healer to deal with the amount of damage coming in on the tank and others.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulia View Post
    This.


    Until about level 60, you can tank dungeons as a Ret paladin or a Non-prot warrior. It's tougher on the healer but nowhere near impossible. I healed a rogue that tanked much of Mauradon because the tank left. It's still possible even through 60, but as levels increase it becomes even tougher on the healer to deal with the amount of damage coming in on the tank and others.
    Yeah, I regularly play a 5 man party with RL friends and we're about lv 37 now. Our tank is usually our prot pally but sometimes the fury warrior tanks if the pally is logging on late that night. Toss on a shield and it's a go. We're doing level equivalent instances and our healer is a new player and sure the healer had to work a bit more, but she didn't find it hard.

    The nice thing about this is that it's inline with Blizz's philosophy with Cata and Fury/arms warriors being able to tank.
    "Just because it's not nice doesn't mean it's not miraculous." - T. P.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
    I was just entertained cause I think I totally had blown his mind.
    Ture, it's more because you have that effect no matter what you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proletaria View Post
    Kudoz on the creativity, but the reason there are fewer tanks to dps and healers in lfg is that there are fewer tanks out there, period.

    Until the LFG tool, people had little need to find and replace tanks every 10-15 mins (granted they had a much smaller population size to drawn on, but i'll assume for a moment the overall and tank populations grew equvalently, folly as it may be).
    So this has been covered alot in this thread, but I will expand a bit. Yes, we all understand the 2-3 tanks per 25 man, but let's go a step further. Joe blow new wow player levels a DK to 80, wants to raid, but isn't an established tank and so never gets to tank raids. And lets face it folks, tanking heroics gets OLD fast, whereas raid tanking is somewhat more interesting. So he doesn't have much choice but to go DPS in order to get into a raid spot. Forcing a plate character to go DPS against their choice is pretty much a cardinal sin in my books.

    Now people will say why don't they collect a tank set? Well, it depends on how much they raid. I wager most don't get much raid time, so either they
    a) don't even bother rolling on tank gear (it irritates me to shard tank gear because somebody doesn't want to bother), or
    b) don't have a complete set. And they can't complete it easily because they are on 20 minute timer to run heroics for badges instead of 20 seconds like tanks, and if they try and go with blues and crafted gear, they get abused in pugs and stop altogether.

    And finally, while tanking is easy for us established tanks, tanking in general is MUCH harder than anything else, especially if you have geared DPS riding your ass. The ability to react fast enough to grab wandering adds, or to establish enough initial threat despite doing much less damage than a similarly geared or better pack of DPS. Keep this in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    I'm at the point now where I do throw my weight as a tank around a little when DPSers behave like they did in the original post. I don't care what some random_rogue thinks, or how fail he thinks my ways are. He's just a faceless, nameless, replaceable, dime-a-dozen DPSer. He can take his butt right back to his 15 minute queue if he doesn't like it. =)
    Sometimes this works. But the healer is sometimes just as rare, and they are starting to throw their weight around as well. Case in point

    HHoR, Arthas chase. Me on my bear, priest healer. We also have a shadow priest who was normally a healer.
    Healer: Hey I know this fight. We should do the strategy where we run behind Arthas
    Me: ....
    Healer: This strategy works! I do it all the time. Let's do it!
    Me: I don't think that's a good idea. Let's do it the normal way and if it doesn't work, then we will try your way.
    Spriest: Let's go <trots ahead with the other DPS>
    Healer: Well, I'm gonna do it my way
    Me: <thinking he will try and bluff us, but will be forced to run after us when hes left alone. Switch to cat form to catch up with DPS, having waited for priest>
    Healer: <stubbornly stands ground at the start, chasing behind Arthas. As a feral, I can track Arthas as well as the priest in cat form while hoofing it to the ice wall>
    Healer dies from frost, 5 yards behind Arthas
    Group wipes from a lack of heals. Group rezzes and gets ready

    Me: Ok, so having you behind Arthas is a bad idea. Let's keep up and get this done.
    Spriest: Yeah, let's do it normally, I don't want to wipe on a heroic again.
    Healer: I'm gonna do it my way. If you don't stick with me, you won't get heals.
    Group starts to move, noticing priest behind. Group votekicks priest, spriest goes heals, we finish with a DPS.

    In this case, we had a healer ready, but if the healer was the holdup (Which it is sometimes), we would have been sitting in the instance, which leads to people quitting during the wait, etc..

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenier View Post
    I play two tanks, a Feral Bear, and a Prot Warrior.

    Various things that have happened to me recently.

    H Old Kingdom on the Warrior: Pickup Hunter would mark and lay into his own targets, which were -not- the ones the rest of the group were on. I'm not 100% sure but he may have had distracting shot in his rotation because it was that common he yanked (just one) mob off me, and didn't feign.
    I play a paladin and bear myself. Both are very good at getting aggro. And by blizzard's standards, a hunter is supposed to pump blistering burst damage from ranged (note: rogues can do better, but they need to get there). Therefore, they can (and do) strip threat with an incorrect rotation devoid of misdirect, much as an arms warrior can instagib themselves with bladestorm, warlocks with overuse of seed of corruption on packs, arcane mages who PresenceOfMind-Flamestrike-IcyVeins-ArcanePower-Blizzard before tanks make decent contact, and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenier View Post
    H FoS on the Warrior - 3 4k+ DPS are incapable of killing Soul Fragment, blame me when we wiped due to their inability to target switch.
    Well, this is gonna happen alot, or at least I noticed. But typically, you don't have 3 incompetent dps, you have one bad one most times. The best solution I find is to help them out. Tank in the center of the room, ranged/healers at the edge (which most do anyways). When the channeling starts, start dragging the boss 180 degrees away from the afflicted person, right to the other edge. Even with 2 average DPS, the extra distance and your personal DPS can make a significant difference (it's not guaranteed, but I would say I have seen a 2/3 improvement with this method). You still need to hope for somebody to try and snare (icy chains, frost nova, trap, etc.). A DK can do that themselves, obviously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenier View Post
    H FoS on the Bear - the huge 2 pack guards that spell reflect. I am tanking a set of those, DK runs up stops at the bottom of the ramp, and DGs one of the guards off me. Decided to let him die, since he wanted to tank that badly I felt it was best to let him live the dream.
    I did that to a hunter doing 1200 dps in nexus, targetting the little guys before they got within my swipe range. Seeing as it was a little flower, I took my fingers off my tank buttons, and typed out "I am letting that one go, because I want people to hit my targets, like I have asked twice already", and proceeded to avoid my taunt button. We downed the adds that were supposed to down, and the group then proceeded to stand and watch (without helping, healer included) as the hunter tried to shoot it down, and then melee the flower to death.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fenier View Post
    My Girlfriend playing her Priest was blamed for a H PoS wipe on Garfrost because both melee DPS decided having 20+ stacks of Permafrost was the way to go.
    Aye, seen that. And also they think to finish casting their spell while they popped their trinkets, as the big falling saronite boulder is omniously shadowing their spot, and then watch as they lose half their health and lose the cast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenier View Post
    And finally, leveling my Mage through the mid 30s and every single group I had, had a Paladin tank... which was ret spec'd. Seriously wth?
    It's been answered as to why you would do it technically, but in reality, people who play plate for the first time and have never tanked as a bear think they can tank. The next step up in retardation is those who think they can tank simply by going frost presence/casting RF/Defensive stance/going bear, although most warriors are slightly smarter that they usually equip a shield as well. But again, they have no actual tank gear (be it by design or even by enchants). Beyond that, you have the smart ones who actually try and tank properly, gear, form and rotation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliena View Post
    Queuing as healer on Aliena I pretty much get instant queues, always. Not sure why but I've never waited more than half a minute. It is kinda nice. Apart from 2 tanks I've had pretty good luck with them so far, too.
    *Mental note: transfer to Aliena's server, and go hordie. And bring Sugar Maple Cream cookies*

    Seriously, for the first few days, healers were instant invites as well, but recently, I've been stalled for a while waiting for a healer.

    Add insult to injury, I get instant queues as a tank, and then have to wait 10 minutes to form. Why? No healer! WTF! Or the worst, waiting for DPS. I curse these times, having JUST switched from my DPS/healer to tank and get going on frost badges, only to wait for DPS and healers!
    And do you know why? The wait process has gotten so long, healers and DPS are basically going afk while they queue up. And the timer runs out, and we go back into queue to pick up MOAR AFKers, while my healers and DPS go for days without getting a group for frost badges.

  15. #95
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    I've pulled before tanks do before, usually either because
    A.) they're going to slow. They didn't say anything about leaving, they're geared to the teeth, and the healer has full mana.

    B.)I can take something, or a group by myself with either large amounts of damage, or fearing them when they get too close.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    Add insult to injury, I get instant queues as a tank, and then have to wait 10 minutes to form. Why? No healer! WTF! Or the worst, waiting for DPS. I curse these times, having JUST switched from my DPS/healer to tank and get going on frost badges, only to wait for DPS and healers!
    And do you know why? The wait process has gotten so long, healers and DPS are basically going afk while they queue up. And the timer runs out, and we go back into queue to pick up MOAR AFKers, while my healers and DPS go for days without getting a group for frost badges.
    Unfortunately I, and I know a few online friends, are guilty of that when we want to DPS. Sometimes I queue up on my rogue then I saunter over to my workbench and work on a model, research, or read something. Usually I hear the gong when I get a match but I miss it sometimes. Especially if I was reading on the couch and decided to go into nap mode.

    However I found it odd last night I had two instant queues as a DPS back to back followed by a 2 minute wait on one. Tried to ride that wave with another character but back to 15 minute times.
    "Just because it's not nice doesn't mean it's not miraculous." - T. P.

  17. #97
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    I still don't know whether to feel bad or not about last nights hNexus run. I've been trying to build my DPS set so I've been running as DPS so i could need anything if I went to one of the ice crown heroics. We had a bear tank. After the first few pulls of ripping aggro every time the bear says "Give me a second, I'm not a warrior or a pally I can't easily hold multiple mobs". Well I don't know what he meant by the second half of the sentence but I'm happy to wait 5 to 10 seconds while he builds threat. I am better geared than him after all.

    I still keep ripping aggro. I ask him to mark targets and get no response. I also notice that he is never going after the casters first and they are laying into the healer. I don't know how I can rip aggro after 3 hits on the tanks target, but since he's not worried about the casters maybe I'll go after them. Finally he says he's usually a DPS and is having a hard time. I ask if he'd like me to tank and I finish tanking the instance.

    Now today I feel bad because I didn't give him more pointers. I didn't want to be a backseat tank and I know little about bears, but he has some major issues. He was trying. He just sucked. I'm sure he just tanked to get the instant queue time, but he was trying.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakshata View Post
    I've pulled before tanks do before, usually either because
    A.) they're going to slow. They didn't say anything about leaving, they're geared to the teeth, and the healer has full mana.

    B.)I can take something, or a group by myself with either large amounts of damage, or fearing them when they get too close.
    Take it from the tanks here that are geared AND skilled, this pisses us off. If you have somebody chain pulling, don't pull even more. It's not that we can't handle it, it's a heroic which we are tired of repeating for the billionth time. I don't want a challenge, I want a fast and easy run (and admitedly, I just want my GD frost emblem so I Can get on another toon and repeat).

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    Take it from the tanks here that are geared AND skilled, this pisses us off. If you have somebody chain pulling, don't pull even more. It's not that we can't handle it, it's a heroic which we are tired of repeating for the billionth time. I don't want a challenge, I want a fast and easy run (and admitedly, I just want my GD frost emblem so I Can get on another toon and repeat).

    Amen

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sennex View Post
    This cracks me up!

    In two weeks of trying I still haven't been able to get through a full Scarlett monastery because of Fury Warriors and Ret Pallies thinking they can tank.

    I refuse to ask my guild for help though, now its like a crusade with me to get it done purely with a Pug.


    Fury wars and ret pallys can tank... just put on shield and def stance/rightous fury. I did it on both my war and pally. its not that they cant tank it's that the players are trash.

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