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Thread: Why Tanks aren't in the LFG queue

  1. #41
    I definitely feel the attitude of pugs towards tanks and heroics in general doesnt help the shortage. Todate ive pretty much just done the 1 random per day to get the frost badges. Being a GM time is often an issue, so over xmas without raids i decided ill hit more heroics simply to help out with the tank shortage.

    The very first 'extra' heroic i run i get CoS, theres a DPS warrior doing 600-700dps but we're getting it done so leave it at that. We complete the timed run with about 5 minutes to spare which is very slow by usual standards, but the groups dps was low even considering the dps war. At the end of the run i inspected him to find he's all 232 gear, unarmed, unenchanted, no gems. Basically fully badge & heroic drop geared and cant even be bothered putting in while being carried and still feels the need to abuse people, amazing. I tanked a few more heroics, but this left a pretty bitter taste so i dont see myself doing as many as i would.

    Id like to see the system better group people to their gearing lvls. So if people want to gear their alts with minimal effort they cant do so without using and abusing the system. Without the very geared players, they'll have to put in.

  2. #42
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    May 2009
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    I tanked Nexus a few days ago with among others a warrior who kept pulling groups ahead of me and seemed very fond of opening with a blade storm. I dont mind guildies or ppl I know doing this but after getting to the first boss and him standing still in the bosses whirlwind I lost it and just let him die. I very rarely pass on taunting mobs off stupid dps'ers, mostly it happens as a reflex. Long story short, after having finished the instance with not too many deaths (all by him) I leave the group and minutes later find myself getting nasty whispers from him (along the lines of "shite tank" and "noob"). Trying to tell him that considering that he was the only one who died (and bottom dps, far below me) he should consider the fact that it might be him doing something wrong rather than me...

    Also tanked Pit of Saron this morning with a nice group and I really have no complaints about that run. Only had a few deaths but completely the ppls faults who died (which they immediately also said), but I do have a question about it. We started by skipping the story part in the begining and just rode past it. Having engaged the first big guy up on the right hand side I decided to pull a few more so I took two more and someone also managed to pull a caster from somewhere (might be that the first dude always comes after you I dont know). Well anyway we ended up with 4 elite mobs and as the dps wasnt great (maybe 12k total) it took a while for them to go down. No problems with the healing at all and the healer had most of his mana left after the fight when one of the dps'ers says "please dont pull so many!". I dont generally pull too many at once with pugs but I fail to see what the problem was. No one was getting seriously hurt (definately no one close to dying) but maybe some ppl just panic when the tank takes on too many?
    All in all it was a very nice run (+ me being top on the damage list is always an ego boost) but I do wonder why some ppl (except healers ofc) object to bigger pulls?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrikL View Post
    ...someone also managed to pull a caster from somewhere (might be that the first dude always comes after you I dont know
    There's a caster with a pack of skels that pats upto the terrace that skeleton you were fighting is on. If you don't watch he'll get you in the back.

    As to your question about big pulls, it could jsut be the fear of dying, I guess.

  4. #44
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    stupid people can only play dps -> 90% of all dpsers in heroics are stupid -> stupid DPS blame the tank for their stupidity -> less tanks
    Xíanth <Valkyria>

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    There's a caster with a pack of skels that pats upto the terrace that skeleton you were fighting is on. If you don't watch he'll get you in the back.

    As to your question about big pulls, it could jsut be the fear of dying, I guess.
    Yeah now that you mention that group I see how it probably happened. And about the fear of dying you are prob correct there also. They might have though I didnt have it under control :-D

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianth View Post
    stupid people can only play dps -> 90% of all dpsers in heroics are stupid -> stupid DPS blame the tank for their stupidity -> less tanks
    Nah I doubt its that bad and I cant say I have had many truly stupid dps since the new LFD feature came out. Reading some comments, here and elsewhere I am starting to think I have been very lucky though. Cant say I have been "officially" blamed many times in my tanking career and I think since the latest patch dps should be even more careful than before. I do queue as dps every now and then to get some practise so I know full well how much longer the wait for a tank is. On another note, is it only me or are good DK tanks pretty uncommon? I dont just mean well geared (which seems uncommon in itself) but DK tanks chain pulling through heroics at high speed and doing so well. I guess one reason would be that we are at a disadvantage with no block on multiple low hitting mobs.

  7. #47
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    dks are more common than any other tank class among the alt-freaks and so-casual-its-dumb people who play once or twice per month.
    Not only there's a large pool to notice mistakes on, the larger pool is also comprised of the people more prone to committing such mistakes.

  8. #48
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    I think there are a number of contributing factors.

    -It takes a special kind of person to enjoy tanking. These are few and far between.
    -Only 3-4 tanks are actually needed for 25 man raiding guilds.
    -Since these tanks are only competing against a couple other people for gear (excluding poor bears,) they get decked out incredibly fast, end up with emblems they don't know what to do with, and have no reason to run 5-mans except to help friend's alts or whatever.
    -Because there are so few tanks relative to the other roles, they never get left out of guild anything, see above point about gear, but it also means that tanks have the easiest time getting guildie henchmen to drag around for whatever reason. A raid tank is the last person in a guild who would need to actually use the dungeon finder, if he wanted to do some emblem farming. This spoils tanks fast =) Even decent PuGs can look horribad next to the daily run you did with a few of your core group the other day.
    -People who aren't experienced tanks (and even experienced tanks on undergeared alts) get heavily abused by PuGs. This can be more than a little discouraging.
    -Gearing is a pain in the ass. Healers are easy to carry, especially if you run 3rd healer with a pair that can two-heal the content or if you can latch onto a 40k+ hp paladin who is immune to heroic damage. Dps can do what it needs to in surprisingly low gear. My hunter in mostly 213-226 gear with the 219 H-ToC gun can push 4.5-5k dps in 25 mans. A similarly geared tank would be really hard to keep alive in the same content that the hunter would be fine for. Not to mention hitting crit immunity. A healer can throw on some ghetto hit pieces and with mostly healer gear, can do respectable dps in their off-spec. Alternately a boomkin could heal with some hit pieces and do fine (see: healers are easy to carry.) You can't pull this off as a dps who wants to tank. New tanks have it the worst. People will take sub-1.5k dps through heroics and not say anything, even though sub-1.5k dps at 80 is operator error, but if the tank doesn't have 30k+ hp then it's gtfo.

    I'm sure there are other reasons I can add to this, and perhaps will if I think of them. Basically it doesn't amount to any one thing, and each tank or not tank could have entirely different reasons for not running randoms or not wanting to play a tank.

  9. #49
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    The only real pug issue I have is being TOP damage for the whole run, trust me its not funny

  10. #50
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    Eh, I do more damage on both my Dk and bear than I expect dps to pull in heroics, so it doesn't bother me at all when it happens. It's always bothered me when dps are doing sub-1.5k in heroics though. There's just no excuse for that.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabbu View Post
    The only real pug issue I have is being TOP damage for the whole run, trust me its not funny
    Maintankadin &bull; View topic - The PuG carrying thread

    We turned that into a competition.

  12. #52
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    Jun 2009
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    i found what you said about tanks rarely getting thanked oh so true. the other day i was in HoL and look the left to come up on the 1st boss. we cleared the first 2 tiers of mobs and were commin up on the third but the boss was commin around. for some reason a stuipid dps pulled the super charged boss, 1 tier of mobs (about 4 of thoes), and 2 of thoes little bridges betweeen tiers (4 mobs from there) i tank the boss, his 2 adds, 4 adds from one tier, and 4 mobs from the bridges. the dps obvisusly did it on purpose because he waited until the general was in just the right spot to pull it all.

    the part that angers me: i saved the dps, tanked all thoes mobs and noone died. when it was all over the only thing they said was "Wow nice healz"

  13. #53
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    I hate when people blame me for their mistakes. For instance, this morning while doing my daily in POS, the healer stood next to the adds and got healing aggro and died. (last boss). All the dps get up in arms about how i tanked him too close to the adds. I said "there is a whole room he can go." One said "dude dont blame him for your mistake" and with that i linked recount of which he was last, and i was 1st, and said yep. Gl.

  14. #54
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    Sep 2007
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    2 Stories !
    #1 Once I was in UK chainpulling stuff, and I had to sneeze (been a bit sick for a week now). Some DPS complained why I stopped... I must have stood still no more then 30 seconds.

    #2 Healer with 80% mana complaining: Please stop ! Mana break !
    He wasn't drinking while typing that, so it must have taking him longer to type it then to drink to full. And it was a priest, so use your shadowfiend or whatever...


    I also only do 1-3 random heroics a day. The first is for myself, and sometimes just to help guildies. It's rare that I go without at least 3 other guildies wanting a shorter waiting time.

    What sucks most is that the wait-time on kicking someone in a pug is usually longer then actually completing the heroic. I think it's about 15 minutes, which is far too long. Pugs with unenchanted/ungemmed crap gear and/or doing less then 1500 dps shouldn't be in heroics.

    I think the biggest reason for lack of tanks for heroics is how few tanks are needed to raid. You have a lot of dps that don't raid, usually to PVP, but you don't have a lot of tanks that don't want to raid. And in my guild we have 3 tanks (dk, pala and warrior) out of 35 active players today (8 healers and 24 dps). So that is 1 tank for every 2.6 healers and 8 dps. No wonder there is a shortage. In every guild I have been, not only there are less tanks then dps/healer, but their attendance is also a lot higher, meaning you have even less in total.

  15. #55
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    Nov 2009
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    Worst group i ever had was a halls of stone with 4 members of a guild on a diffrent server than mine. I was setting pallypower when the enhance shaman blerts out pull already. I begin to type "relax let me buff first" but before i can finish he already pulls. I try my best to shake it off but they continue to pull for me and mock me in party chat. Needless to say i stayed less than 5 pulls.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrikL View Post
    Nah I doubt its that bad and I cant say I have had many truly stupid dps since the new LFD feature came out. Reading some comments, here and elsewhere I am starting to think I have been very lucky though. Cant say I have been "officially" blamed many times in my tanking career and I think since the latest patch dps should be even more careful than before. I do queue as dps every now and then to get some practise so I know full well how much longer the wait for a tank is. On another note, is it only me or are good DK tanks pretty uncommon? I dont just mean well geared (which seems uncommon in itself) but DK tanks chain pulling through heroics at high speed and doing so well. I guess one reason would be that we are at a disadvantage with no block on multiple low hitting mobs.

    Well, it depends on your experience as a tank. I personally havn't experienced DPS "bad enough" to fuck things up for me because I have a lot of experience as tank and can handle pretty much any shit situation in a heroic (and out gear it, of course). These same DPS could probably make it a nightmare for a new tank (especially in say HoR) and cause wipes/deaths which would then be blamed on the tank.
    Xíanth <Valkyria>

  17. #57
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    I have to say I have had some AMAZING runs both as a tank and as a healer.

    Yesterday, I was tanking FOS.
    You know those wide spread groups of caster mobs right at the start? Well, I did some of my most amazing tanking feats and had them all tightly gouped on one spot. Warrior tanking heaven. Every trick in the book. Then this DPS DK deathgrips one of the casters to him instead of running into the group. Can't say I could be bothered to taunt the mob off of him. He continued this with every smaller mob he ran across. When challenged by the healer he said that he can easily take the punishment and always does this. Annoyingly he didn't die. Not even once.

    I have too many badges.
    I had too much time on my hands over the christmas holidays so I went on an all out tanking spree. So far I have managed to pick up an ilvl232 Fury set, filled up some gaps in my tanking set and still have 100 outdated badges sitting in my bags. So why should I want to tank?

    I like the challenge(tank/healer).
    Good groups are boring. I love newbies. People who do their first wobbly steps in a heroic. I'm patient. See? I got the achievement.
    I had one run as a Disc healer I'm really proud of. I got placed into a Nexus group of four people from the same guild. Turns out they were coaching a green bear tank in Vent. I have to say, I did my fines ever healing since aggro was all over the place and the tank still had a couple of quest greens. 14 well placed pain suppressions in one run. I only had two dead group members on that giant mob with the ice spikes(forgot his name) due to partly fail by dps and me having to go all out on the tank. Sounds like a nightmare? Nope! That was pure fun. It beats the hell out of simply healing by shielding and Nova spam.

    I hate the challenge(DPS).
    Since I had farmed a complete fury set I entered the tool as DPS just to see how the other half lives.
    Many healers and tanks are really DPS with an offspec for faster invites. And it really shows in some places. Fury warriors are bound to find the weakly tanked mob. They really, really have to be prepared to die. Even if the tank and healer are awesome. So let's just say I'm in a position to find the weak links in the group setup.
    More than once I started a run as Fury just to end it as Tank. Most famously when the tank got lost in COT4 and I silently switched over to tank. Just barely finished the time run with only 30s to spare.
    So you sit there waiting 15 minutes for an invite just to get a fail group. That really has to be frustrating.

    The situation gets better.
    Over the last couple of days those DDs with an tank/healer offspec have become better. They really have. Many of them have by now finished at least 20 heroics and the tanking/healing experience of the unwashed masses has improved.
    The new LFG system is a very good thing because it makes players consider tanking/healing that otherwise wouldn't have bothered. It's been a rough start but the player base as a whole is becoming more knowledgeable.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
    pioneer of representative government who was
    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  18. #58
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    Dec 2007
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    When i'm on my pally, I don't mind being one of the top dmg people in the run - it happens farily easily. My warrior though is another story.

  19. #59
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    To this point, I really can't say anything but good things about the new LFG tool. Thus far I can only think of 1 bad experience with a Pally healer in HoR the first week, other than that it's been smooth sailing on the whole. Certainly, having 42k unbuffed allows me to compensate for almost anything in heroics, but by the same token you still need a competent healer and adequate dps.

    I think like many of you who've already posted, it comes down to the same reasons for all of us. After you have all the badges you need running 5mans sort of becomes old hat. Even in the groups that were smooth sailing, I still get those people who like to think there better than they are, tell you to go this way or tank them here. I just shrug it off. I like to get inside, pull and be done with it as quickly as possible without alot of wasting time.

    Last night I got in queue for H. Nexus, started off just like the example on page one...I went right and the group went left and the DK tells me I'm going the wrong way. I think to myself is there really a wrong way in Nexus, it's a big circle....we start pulling and get to the room with the guys in ice blocks and the DK says in party chat, "Who's tanking this?" I speak up and say I am, why? He then asks my why I'm 2nd on the DPS? I lol and ask him if I really need explain that. Seriously, we had a hunter in the group who was doing like 250 dps, and he was in mostly epics. Anyways, the run goes smoothly, no wipes and we get to the last boss and the DK again rambles on about he doesn't think we have the dps to beat him. I speak up and say, listen I didn't come here to fail, we got this. Everyone needs to rachet it up and lay some dps on this guy. We proceed to 1 shot him and I end up first on dps on that fight.

    So to sum up why there are not as many tank's in LFG, probably due to the mental anguish most of us have to take. Especially if your a new tank learning the ropes. People expect you to hoist the group on your shoulders and carry them through. Anything short of that and you are considered a fail tank.

  20. #60
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    I'm not sure why people like to be so contrary. Maybe you're just trying to defend the new LFG system? I have nothing against it at all and consider it one of the best changes to come from a patch that Blizzard has done.

    But those stories of fail experiences are out there, most of them are amusing. Hence this thread, I've really enjoyed some of the stories so far. I hope even the people that were frustrated with them can look back and laugh.

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