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Thread: Back enchant

  1. #1
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    Back enchant

    I've seen many tanks currently using the 22 agi enchant on their backs and I would love to know why. Specially for plate users since my tank is a paladin. I have no clue what benefit does this gives besides armor and idk if is worth more than the armor enchant itself.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xemmas View Post
    I've seen many tanks currently using the 22 agi enchant on their backs and I would love to know why. Specially for plate users since my tank is a paladin. I have no clue what benefit does this gives besides armor and idk if is worth more than the armor enchant itself.

    Thanks
    There's a number of guides here that would explain better, but agi trickles down into armor, crit, and dodge.

    However, of the three tanking enchants for the back I'd recommend the +225 to armor. Or, if defense rating is really a problem for you, Titanweave (+16 defense)

  3. #3
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    22 agility gives you .25% dodge before diminshing returns, 44 armor and .35% crit. The majority of the time a small amount of avoidance and crit isn't worth an extra 181 armor.

  4. #4
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    Agi gives dodge (even if the info on the character screen doesn't say it does). If you're no fan of blocking and want pure avoidance instead of mitigation, agi is the best way to go. Overall, 16 defense and 225 armour will reduce incoming damage more.
    Until a recent patch, agility + BoKings was slightly better than dodge rating for reducing incoming damage. It is now apparently slightly worse.

    If you doubt the dodge effect of agility (have had to argue this with quite a few people who say it does nothing for paladins/warriors since the agi tooltip in-game on the character screen doesn't mention it), get a cloak with only agility on it as its only stat, equip and un-equip it and watch your dodge percentage move.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by the27thvoice View Post
    Agi gives dodge (even if the info on the character screen doesn't say it does). If you're no fan of blocking and want pure avoidance instead of mitigation, agi is the best way to go. Overall, 16 defense and 225 armour will reduce incoming damage more.
    Until a recent patch, agility + BoKings was slightly better than dodge rating for reducing incoming damage. It is now apparently slightly worse.

    If you doubt the dodge effect of agility (have had to argue this with quite a few people who say it does nothing for paladins/warriors since the agi tooltip in-game on the character screen doesn't mention it), get a cloak with only agility on it as its only stat, equip and un-equip it and watch your dodge percentage move.
    While all that about agi IS true, read the post above you. before diminishing returns it gives ~0.25% dodge. Dunno about you, but with my gear I'm getting about ~.016. I'm lousy at math, but that boils down to around one in every 625 attacks being dodged. The bonus from armor is persistant across all attacks and will most likely (in pure melee encounters at least) give you better survival. Although for a magic-based fight or something like Saurfang, agi wuld technically be better.

  6. #6
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    Even on non-physical only damage fights, you will get more bang for you buck from Armor than Agility. Because you're not going to dodge Lady Deathwhisper's frost bolt volley, nor the D&D, nor the ghost explosion.

    But you can still reduce her melee damage through more mitigation. Because in any idea, with physical damage, the armor will be a greater return than the dodge/crit/armor of agility. Until you hit some absurd diminishing returns spot...which we're not even hitting yet with unbreakable armor up as a DK.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wars View Post
    Even on non-physical only damage fights, you will get more bang for you buck from Armor than Agility. Because you're not going to dodge Lady Deathwhisper's frost bolt volley, nor the D&D, nor the ghost explosion.

    But you can still reduce her melee damage through more mitigation. Because in any idea, with physical damage, the armor will be a greater return than the dodge/crit/armor of agility. Until you hit some absurd diminishing returns spot...which we're not even hitting yet with unbreakable armor up as a DK.
    I completely agree with wars. Also 16 defense is more avoidance too, not counting block, than 22 agi, at least after DRs. The DR curves on dodge for agi are fairly steep post 3.2 for warriors.

    The only thing that can help a magic damage fight is like... magic miss, resistance, and stam.

    225 armor is the enchant of choice imo.
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  8. #8
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    If you are an off tank i would say 22 agi since the extra crit will help you on aggro against trash and adds. 225 armor if you are tanking the boss most the time for the added mitigation. It really depends if you are mt, second string, or third string tank in your 25 man raid guild.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfists View Post
    If you are an off tank i would say 22 agi since the extra crit will help you on aggro against trash and adds. 225 armor if you are tanking the boss most the time for the added mitigation. It really depends if you are mt, second string, or third string tank in your 25 man raid guild.
    I'd still disagree.

    22 agi gives 0.35% crit. That's saying 1 out of 300 attacks will crit.

    On the other hand, if you're using Armed to the Teeth or Bladed Armor, armor=AP, giving you a more consistent damage increase. Also, armor will scale well on all three tanking classes thanks to Toughness.

  10. #10
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    We're talking about pallies though (OP is a Paladin). My Pallie tank is sitting at 15% crit my GM's Pallie has 16% crit. This puts us as the second highest crit percentage tank under druids. Now if you arent on the boss as a pallie and are rounding up adds in a fight the little extra crit scales well with us giving us better snap aggro. To a certain degree those people wondering why pallie threat is so good take a look at our crit some time. Im sure thats how it works for Warriors and Im sure 22 agi isnt good for DKs because there crit is also low.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfists View Post
    Now if you arent on the boss as a pallie and are rounding up adds in a fight the little extra crit scales well with us giving us better snap aggro.
    I'm sorry, but I have to correct you here. It may give you snap aggro. Most of the time, it doesn't, and counting on it will wipe you five out of six times.
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  12. #12
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    Martie Martie Martie youre starting to become my little buddy here. No one should count on the snap aggro from 22 agi but we would then have to go into the detail of what needs to come from the off tank and the mechanics of the adds and if there are any. If you are gearing to take adds that are pesky and dont hit nearly as hard as the boss a little more threat even if its a chance will benefit you more than extra armor but then again once more we have to look at how much damage and what kind of damage the add is doing.

    To break down 25 ICC i would say MT and OT should go 225 armor and third tank should go 22 agi since he will get very little face time with a boss and more often than not be on trash duty. Ultimately the trade off is .35% melee crit for 200 armor (not taking talents into consideration) nothing really groundbreaking. And once again melee crit will help pallies the most since raid buffed we are sitting somewhere between 22-25% as is and Warriors and Dks are a good 10% below that.

    You're talking symantics if someone actually believes more crit is guaranteed more threat than they need to go back to the basics. Point was will it give better snap yes but i dont think i need to put a clause to say crit is a roulette wheal because i think most people here are wise enough to know that already.
    Last edited by Hammerfists; 01-03-2010 at 04:04 PM.

  13. #13
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    OK, from an absolutely technical point of view yes, the 22 agi COULD give you a little extra snap aggro.

    In fact statisically, if you're looking at aoe trash packs of 5 mobs, in in every 60 packs or so you'll get extra snap aggro on one mob. And that's before diminishing returns.

    Or you could have slightly higher constant dps, giving you more aggro on every fight, plus the bonus or survivng longer. Again, on every fight. While you're right that you have the highest crit percentage, that just makes it worse for you. It's going to scale that much worth and therefore be worth that much less. I mean use whatever you like, but the benefit you're going to see from that is so tiny as to not be noticeable at all.

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