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Thread: Prot warrior advice for heroic HoR

  1. #1
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    Prot warrior advice for heroic HoR

    Can i get some advice about how to deal with the situation inside of heroic HoR?

    On normal i can deal with it, but it seems on heroic I cant make it to wave 10 of the waves. I tell people to target off me to kill the healers, mages, etc. and we still go down, this time i was unable to even make it to the first boss.

    any advice is welcome, please and thank you

  2. #2
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    This fight really will push you to the limits of your ability to hold aggro on multiple targets.
    Line of sight is your friend here. Duck around a corner, hide in one of the alcoves where falric and marwyn spawn, whichever you prefer, but do something to break line of sight with the ranged so they have to run to you. You can silence the mages and disarm the hunters to make them come to you for a short time as well. Use your stuns and interrupts as necessary.

    DPS needs to do their part on this fight as well. Any CC they can use they should use to lock down the hunters. Usually I can get the mages to come to where I want them to by using heroic throw + taunt or charge > shield bash. I'm assuming you're talented into Gag Order, of course. Also, this fight isn't an aoe fest. DPS should be focus firing the adds down one at a time. Mercenaries first, then Priests, Then Mages, then Hunters, and Footmen last. The Footmen are pansies.

    A final note, for the love of all that's holy, please don't try to tank in the center of the room, or line of sight WILL work against you. I had this idiot healer who wanted to stand ON the altar in the center of the room and expected me to run around and pick everything up. They dont make enough taunts to pick up every single one of them one by one while the healer stand in plain sight spamming Nourish and aggroing everything as soon as it spawns.

  3. #3
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    You're currently in fury spec/gear so I can't tell from your armory, but cleave is your bestest of friends in HoR. I don't really know what to tell you that the above poster didn't say without knowing what you're doing. I have a small excerpt on AoE threat in general in my guide in my signature, it might be worth a look.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musclebound View Post
    Mercenaries first, then Priests, Then Mages, then Hunters, and Footmen last. The Footmen are pansies.
    This.
    I know it's a natural reaction to want to kill the healers first, but those Mercs are absolutely savage. Most groups have some sort of healing debuff in case the priests want to heal the Mercs, but in my experience it doesn't happen much. Make sure the DPS are killing the Mercs first and your life will be a million times easier.


  5. #5
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    I think after running it with my brother tanking, prot pally, and seeing my friends do it. The issue is that when everyone is in the corner we stay there and fight we dont move it away from the healer and she takes some cleave damage, etc etc. My brother does the same as me, fight everyone in the corner, but we moved it away from the healer and we did alot better, only one wipe on the spirit waves.
    Last edited by Jokercide; 01-04-2010 at 06:04 AM.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, keep the enemies away from the healer. The Merc's suck, and the Hunters putting the stings on you is terrible. If you have a shammy, put down the cleanse totems. As for the healer, just heal through the poisons, it takes too many GCD's to cleanse them off. If the WHOLE group works together, it is entirely possible to get through the encounter with no wipes. It's just communication and coordination.
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
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  7. #7
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    I take a completely different approach. Keep in mind this is more difficult for most tanks and if you do not have everything key-bound and are fairly experienced with all your abilities this may not be the best option for you.
    • I don't hide in a corner, I consider Prot Warriors the most mobile tanking class and as such I prefer to utilize that advantage as well as making this encounter much more fun and reduce camera angle frustration.
      • I tank in the center of the room, don't mark targets and don't rely on the rest of the group to do anything worthwhile because 90% of the time pugs won't do what they are supposed to anyway.
    With that being said, here is how I approach the encounter
    • As a Prot Warrior we have a few tricks to help us despite lacking aoe threat especially on a spread out fight like this. I prioritize things by getting initial threat on anything dangerous, silencing ranged targets to bring them to me and once things are grouped up shockwave and aoe as usual.
    • It varies from wave to wave but on the most difficult ones I generally
      • Heroic Throw mage (silence causes him to come to you)
      • Charge/thunderclap for initial threat on melee
      • Taunt merc if he isn't yet on you, otherwise taunt priest or hunter
      • Shockwave to stun as many targets as possible and allow you to taunt/charge/run over to anything not on you yet.
      • Shield bash the mage or priest to make sure they stay close and thunderclap whenever it is off cooldown.
    • Really you can't script the pulls since it depends on what you have on cooldown and what might have aggro pulled while you are gathering things up. However, if you let your DPS know to just hang out till you have things gathered up you can usually do a decent job with heroic throw / shield bash silencing things and getting everything in a pile.
    • Once everything is grouped up it is easy to shockwave/thunderclap/tab-target cleave to keep things on you.
    • Don't be afraid to taunt every time it is off cooldown on things that are not on you
    • Take advantage of stance-dance intercept to get over to anything out of range when your charge is on cooldown. It stuns the target and gets you away from things that are on you so you can get back into def stance before you get hit. Same with intervene, I silence and fly all over the place with gag order / heroic throw / charge / shield bash / intercept / intervene. Spell reflect is also your friend.
    • Your 1 goal is to get everything in a group to shockwave and burn down. The hunter will bounce away but if you have gotten threat on him it doesn't matter as long as no one else is hitting him.
    • I find the mage to be the largest pain since he will just stand back and cast if he isn't silenced so I usually group everything else up beside him.
    • Kill order I prefer Mage > Priest > Merc > everything else. Just make sure all the melee are on you and utilize your mobility and stuns to round up the ranged.
    One other thing to mention, use your cooldowns aggressively. Really there are spike bursts of damage in this encounter and if you can recognize that fact and help your healer out with trinkets/shield wall/last stand/enraged regen they will love you.

    In the end I find this encounter really comes down to a minimum gear/skill requirement of your healer. You greatly limit the incoming damage with all the stuns/spell reflect/etc available to you but some healers simply can't handle this versatile fight Just worry about controlling what you can and make sure everything is on you so that the healer can focus on just keeping you alive.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musclebound View Post
    Mercenaries first, then Priests, Then Mages, then Hunters, and Footmen last. The Footmen are pansies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaio View Post
    This.
    I can see why you would want to kill the mercs first, but if you have a poison cleanser (shammy totem, druid abolish poison are best), the waves die faster if the healer goes down first, and the mercs aren't that bad if their poisons are getting cleansed.

    YMMV I guess.

  9. #9
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    Squirrel...thank you. Finally someone shares my disdain for the LOS-in-the-corner-like-a-pansy method. We're warriors, we have charge, intercept, and intervene all available in one stance (for some of us, with one or two buttons even). We have our silencing and stunning capabilities, a frontal cone stun that does a truckload of damage.

    Bottom line, like you said though, our mobility is king and is what sets us apart in these types of places. Any paladin or DK could drop a firefart at the edge of Falric and hide in the corner to get threat on all mobs, but that sort of makes you feel like a beginner, doesn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  10. #10
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    As squirrel said, more or less:

    A lot of groups stay in the alcove after the tank has aggro on everything. I believe this is a mistake, regardless of what class the tank is. There are a lot AoEs the mobs do, and staying in a tight group in the alcove works to their advantage. Once you have aggro, taking the mobs out of the alcove can help. Use spell reflect to keep aggro on the mages if you have trouble bringing them with you.

    After the wave is finished, run back into the alcove.

  11. #11
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    Regardless of poisons the Mercs still hit really hard. They're really the only threat in HoR lol...

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  12. #12
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    LOS-in-the-corner-like-a-pansy method
    That is a standard game mechanic tanking technique, and really has nothing to do with being a "pansy " or not. Using a different style of tanking really has nothing to do with your man hood. Or should I say "Toonhood" lolz

    On Topic - I find this instance much more fun on my warrior than my DK. Warriors have so many tools to gather up caster mobs. Theres a lot of good advice up above. Read through it, try it , find what works for you.

  13. #13
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    my last 4 or 5 runs in HoR, we have stayed away from the LoS alcove method and have been using the front door.

    heals and ranged dps need to put their backs to the door while tank and melee need to be up front, just into where the room opens up, before frostmourne's resting place.

    The spirits will start making their way to the melee up front, which gives me (prot warrior) the opportunity to charge > taunt > intercept before the mobs even make it to the entry of the doorway.

    after this initial snatch n grab of wtvr i can hit initially. I will KNOW what i do and dont have good aggro on, as they will start to make their way to the doorway and on to the casters.

    Doing this has made picking up ANY of the mobs, extremely simple, for me. Anything i lose aggro on, immediately turns and has a ways to run, to get to the casters... this leaves plenty of time for a taunt, intercept, heroic throw.

    A lot of times, i will charge the mob that has broken free, shield slam & heroic strike, then i will intercept back to the pack i just left... takes all of 1-2 seconds.

    I love love love spell reflection... not only does it prevent some of those 6k mage blasts from hitting, but it will help keep the casters off of the healers due to healing aggro.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Squirrel...thank you. Finally someone shares my disdain for the LOS-in-the-corner-like-a-pansy method.
    LoS "Pulling" has a long and venerable history in the life of tanks since vanilla WoW and has only recently (AoE Fest Naxx, No LoS ToC) been relegated to gathering cobwebs.

    If you have generally issues with LoS "Pulling" you should probably save groups time and repair bills and switch to DPS.

    We're warriors, we have charge, intercept, and intervene all available in one stance
    Doesn't matter if your tinkerbell, generally none of those abilities are good for the initial "pull" of mobs. The term "pull" is actually counter to the ability "charge". When you Charge, you are not Pulling at all. In ICC charging into starting trash can, will, and does cause wipes.

    So, my advice is to lose the attitude about LoS in general, it's a more basic "tanking tool" then any of the ones you have mentioned. It was one of the first skills you learned as a tank (unless your a johnny-come-lately) and it's back to front and center with the starting trash in ICC10/25.

    You might actually say the Dev's were trying to teach new tanks to LoS with HoR so they are ready to tank trash in ICC10/25.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NinetyProof View Post
    You might actually say the Dev's were trying to teach new tanks to LoS with HoR so they are ready to tank trash in ICC10/25.
    Although it's easy to outgear it and just bull through it now, I can think of several heroics, where when it was common to be barely geared for them, LoS pulls were not only possible but appropriate, and smarter tanks did them.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NinetyProof View Post
    LoS "Pulling" has a long and venerable history in the life of tanks since vanilla WoW and has only recently (AoE Fest Naxx, No LoS ToC) been relegated to gathering cobwebs.

    If you have generally issues with LoS "Pulling" you should probably save groups time and repair bills and switch to DPS.

    Doesn't matter if your tinkerbell, generally none of those abilities are good for the initial "pull" of mobs. The term "pull" is actually counter to the ability "charge". When you Charge, you are not Pulling at all. In ICC charging into starting trash can, will, and does cause wipes.

    So, my advice is to lose the attitude about LoS in general, it's a more basic "tanking tool" then any of the ones you have mentioned. It was one of the first skills you learned as a tank (unless your a johnny-come-lately) and it's back to front and center with the starting trash in ICC10/25.

    You might actually say the Dev's were trying to teach new tanks to LoS with HoR so they are ready to tank trash in ICC10/25.
    My counterpoint to your argument is the fact that Prot Warriors do have these various abilities to make us mobile tanks. You may love hiding in a corner because of what was done in 'vanilla' but to take advantage of that one tactic you are selling yourself and your other abilities short.

    Why ignore abilities for the sake of remembering history? Why not make yourself the most viable tank you possibly can?

    Yes some situations should use LoS and you would be a fool not to. BUT, many situations do not require LoS and people use that mechanic as a crutch for not being as good of a tank as they could be or not wanting to work hard.

    If you have the ability to heroic throw, charge, shield bash, intervene, intercept, spell reflect, shockwave, etc... why not make the fullest use of those talents instead of sitting in a corner using a tactic which CLEARLY gives alternative classes such as Paladins a huge tanking advantage? I much prefer utilizing every trick I have to highlight my Prot Warrior strengths and minimize my mechanical disadvantages when compared to Pallys/Druids/Dks.

    There is a big difference between intelligent LoS pulls in raids which require it and LoS to avoid working hard in 5man heroics and pugs. If done correctly you can take LESS damage, put out BETTER threat and have a better general control of the situation if you use your mobile abilities as a Prot Warrior in Heroic HoR. If you continue to disagree I would be happy to compare WoL meters demonstrating damage taken in a HoR run to see which of us is hurt more to give some numbers to the arguments

  17. #17
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    HoR

    What I find in tanking this on my warrior is that if the dps layoff for about 5 seconds when the mobs spawn and the healer and the tank are close together, if the healer throws some heals on the prot warrior it aggros the mobs. they go for the healer and the tank intercepts them as they come in specially the mercs, and a heroic throw to the mage with gag order to draw that mob in close, once you have aggro'd all the mobs dps can hit them but focus firstly on priest.... then mage... then mercs ....finally the rifleman at the end.
    Also nice to CC the rifleman if possible but if not the warrior should give it a taunt to keep aggro now and again.....all the while keeping the priest, mage and 2 mercs closely grped.
    glyphs i use here are cleave blocking and shieldwall. I find that over aggressive aoe here is a problem slowly increase the aoe as the tank has solid aggro lead.
    Beserker rage to avoid kidney shots as well, avoid the rogue getting behind you and stunning you
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NinetyProof View Post
    Doesn't matter if your tinkerbell, generally none of those abilities are good for the initial "pull" of mobs. The term "pull" is actually counter to the ability "charge". When you Charge, you are not Pulling at all. In ICC charging into starting trash can, will, and does cause wipes.
    Once again the difference is all in the use. I almost ALWAYS pull with a charge because I know the distance and mechanics of what I am attacking and keep an eye on incoming damage versus heals. Charge combined with Thunderclap / Position / Shockwave gives you a substantial threat lead, adequate rage and limits if not completely preventing incoming damage with the stun. If anything goes wrong you can easily trinket/cooldown to prevent damage allowing healers to get on the ball.

    There are times for a talented heroic throw silence and LoS pull but those situations are actually very rare even in ICC10/25. I find that many tanks try to use your type of reasoning and then complain how they lose aggro or are rage starved while if they took a more aggressive approach it would be a non-issue.

    Take advantage of your abilities instead of fighting the mechanics of our Prot Warrior class and playing like a Paladin. We excel in offensive tanking with snap aggro but are sadly lacking in the more defensive role that a Paladin can take with ticking threat over time abilities and aoe.

  19. #19
    I simply ask the dps to wait, usually they do, if they dont i let them die and they start to listen.

    I tank them in the far indent the Lich King walks out of, its easier to see and everything stays in front of me, no LoS needed.

    1. Stand to either right or left to pick up immediate aggro on whatever spawns there.
    2. Taunt target that spawns on opposite side. (i.e. If u stand on top of mob that spawns on the right, taunt the mob that spawned on the left so it doesnt aggro immediately to heals)
    3. Heroic throw Mage
    4. Charge Rifleman
    5. AoE tank them all together where the rifleman stands, if mage runs away, run over and shield bash and drag back.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bashal View Post
    I can see why you would want to kill the mercs first, but if you have a poison cleanser (shammy totem, druid abolish poison are best), the waves die faster if the healer goes down first, and the mercs aren't that bad if their poisons are getting cleansed.

    YMMV I guess.
    The reason I mark mercs to die first has nothing to do with their poisons, which have never been a problem for any group I've run with. They're my top priority because they stun the tank frequently and most healers have difficulty keeping the tank up through the massive burst of damage that results. Their poison damage is absolutely trivial.

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