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Thread: Corpse Tongue Coin or Black Heart?

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    Corpse Tongue Coin or Black Heart?

    So I recently acquired a Corpse Tongue Coin from ICC 25 and I'm not sure about the viability of it for my warrior. I have a Corroded Skeleton Key in my other slot so what do you think I should use in my second?

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  2. #2
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    Personally I tend not to advocate two stamina trinkets at the same time. I prefer one stam trinket and one avoidance one. As such, I'd say Skel key/Corpse tongue.

    Honestly though I'm lousy at math. I expect Stam Czar will be behind me in a second to prove that the stam+armor buff on TBH offers a higher effective health than the stam+dmg absorb on Key.

    Either way, Corpse tongue+ one of the other two is the better way to go I think.

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    There aren't many situations where an avoidance trinket will be better than a stamina or armor trinket. The corpse tongue coin can be useful on the gunship battle when tanking Muradin/Saurfang, and on Deathbringer Saurfang, but aside from those, the Black Heart will almost always be better for survivability.

  4. #4
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    I agree with Reev, there are very few situations where the Corpe Tongue is better than the tons of stamina the Black Heart gives if you take into account its proc, the Corpse Tongue Coin could also prove useful for any future bosses that might be getting loads of hits on you while you are under 35% making the proc helpful.

  5. #5
    haahh what situations? because i also have the same set up and i don't know when to use what.

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    I'm going to echo Reev and krc here since the "Stam Czar" was summoned.

    I don't think the black heart is better than the skeleton key(at least I think that's wat Eisen was referring to), I mean... when the proc is up it is, but the proc's uptime is around 10%, so that significantly diminishes the effectiveness of the proc. However, it is DEFINITELY better than the corpse tongue coin just because of the raw stam on the trinket. However if you want to pick up another trinket, I'd suggest glyph of indominability to go along with your skeleton key if Juggernaut's Vitality is inaccessible to you.

    The "situations" that they speak of where it may be better to have avoidance over EHP are currently 2 fold. 1 is gunship where the gunship captain can stack up quite a few stacks of his debuff if you are not dodging a lot, and depending on how little he misses you and the quickness of your DPS on the sorcerer, 1 dodge actually might be the difference between getting pulverized into the side of the ship or being able to successfully jump over to your boat. The other is saurfang, where since marks increase exponentially, it could become vital that you dodge/miss/parry an attack rather than eat it, since 5 dps might have to eat those shots too.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  7. #7
    I don't think the black heart is better than the skeleton key(at least I think that's wat Eisen was referring to), I mean... when the proc is up it is, but the proc's uptime is around 10%, so that significantly diminishes the effectiveness of the proc.
    Yeah, Black Heart is kind of annoying to me now.

    At first I was of the mentality that Rawr and other theorycrafting tools are...that being, just average the armor on the proc based on the uptime and call it a day. Doing so generally results in Black Heart being called best-in-slot under most cirsumstances and is quite misleading IMO.

    But after a while it occured to me that the proc, much like avoidance, is just unreliable. In fact, it combines the worst parts of everything. What I mean by that is that you get the unreliability of avoidance without the benefits of occasionally avoiding attacks altogether.

    It doesn't contribute to EH at all, it's most probably not going to be up during times when you really need it, it's really not taking any load off your healers because they're not going to shift their healing in any way just because you got some extra armor for a few seconds...I've just come to really hate the thing.

    Granted, in fights with a lot of tank swapping the value can go up significantly. But even then I wouldn't use it. Just not a fan of it anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    I'm going to echo Reev and krc here since the "Stam Czar" was summoned.

    I don't think the black heart is better than the skeleton key(at least I think that's wat Eisen was referring to),
    I wasn't saying that. Although I'm still underwhelmed with the skeleton key's on-use.

    I was more saying that when given a choice of 2 stam trinkets, or 1 stam trinket and one armor trinket, I'd take the latter coupling. Unless the secondary effects were THAT good.
    Last edited by Eisen; 01-02-2010 at 08:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    I wasn't saying that. Although I'm still underwhelmed with the skeleton key's on-use.

    I was more saying that when given a choice of 2 stam trinkets, or 1 stam trinket and one armor trinket, I'd take the latter coupling. Unless the secondary effects were THAT good.
    The problem is in most circumstances the primary effects for avoidance aren't good enough to warrant an avoidance trinket at all. Sometimes avoidance is needed, but for main sets go with EHP.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    The other is saurfang, where since marks increase exponentially, it could become vital that you dodge/miss/parry an attack rather than eat it, since 5 dps might have to eat those shots too.
    The purpose of avoidance on DBS isn't to make it so that other marked players aren't eating the hits you're eating. The Mark of the Fallen Champion will do damage on the swing timer of DBS whether or not his swings land on the tank. The benefit of avoidance is to decrease the rate at which blood power collects to keep the raid from getting as many marks in the first place. Not sure if that's what you were going for, but your phrasing was a bit ambiguous there.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    The purpose of avoidance on DBS isn't to make it so that other marked players aren't eating the hits you're eating. The Mark of the Fallen Champion will do damage on the swing timer of DBS whether or not his swings land on the tank. The benefit of avoidance is to decrease the rate at which blood power collects to keep the raid from getting as many marks in the first place. Not sure if that's what you were going for, but your phrasing was a bit ambiguous there.
    Unless you are solo tanking him avoiding should be having no effect on his BP at all.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    The purpose of avoidance on DBS isn't to make it so that other marked players aren't eating the hits you're eating. The Mark of the Fallen Champion will do damage on the swing timer of DBS whether or not his swings land on the tank. The benefit of avoidance is to decrease the rate at which blood power collects to keep the raid from getting as many marks in the first place. Not sure if that's what you were going for, but your phrasing was a bit ambiguous there.
    Ya, I actually just learned he hits no matter what, and have since retracted my support of avoidance on the DBS fight.

    What are you talking about decreasing the rate at which BP collects in the first place. He doesn't gain any from doing damage to the tank. If you get the mark of blood he heals when he does damage to you, but that's it as far as I'm aware, or do I need to go re-read a guide again?
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  13. #13
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    No you're right on that. For some reason I was thinking he got blood power from normal melee swings, but that would make no sense, because he'd gain it way too fast. In which case, avoidance doesn't even really make sense on this fight.

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