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Thread: Pally Healing..

  1. #1
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    Pally Healing..

    Hello,

    I have been trying to be a little bit more active on the healing side of tankspot because my old main priest has become my main again (from my dk). And I have been having a blast healing again. While raiding 25s, I usually go with 2 Pally Healers, 2 Holy Priest Healers, Shammy Healer, Druid Healer. Everybody equally geared. 10s I run 1 Holy Priest (me), 1 Shammy, 1 Pally Healer.

    I am seeking advice for my pally guildies who I run with. Back in the day, they were better healers then me, and could always beat me on healing meters (yes I know, healing meters lie) and never let the tanks die. However, since the patch that they say "changed pallies" they both have been doing...aweful. They are losing healing meters to everyone by almost 15%, usually at 1400 HPS. The tanks keep dieing. They keep blaming "the nerfs" and say there is no way around it. However, when I pug ToC10, I can 2-heal it with other pallies, and sometimes the pallies beat me, pushing 2500+.

    I'm just seeking advice as to how they can do better. I'm a huge theorycraft guy, and I love to research and find ways to do things better. My guildies come to me whenever they need to improve and they both have asked me to help, but I'm clueless.

    The World of Warcraft Armory - Our main tank pally

    The World of Warcraft Armory - Our Offtank pally

    When asked what rotation they use, this was their response, "Basically cast flash of light unless they drop below 70%, then I cast holy light on them", when asked if they holy shock (I know a LITTLE bit about pallies haha) they say "yes, on tanks". So, that's about all the information I have.
    "If the tank dies, it's the healers fault. If the healer dies, it's the tanks fault. If the dps dies, it's their own damn fault!"

  2. #2
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    there gear is good it all gem and enchanted all right. your main pally healer is a little off in there tallent. the "raid spec" is what your off tank pally healer has. not really a pally man my slef. only thing i would do is eather stop them raiding or put them on a back off healing and have them learn the new" spec. why pally have gotten nerfed a bit that really no excuse evey class will get neafed every so offen. so tell them suck it up and heal more

  3. #3
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    Spec wise they're fine, I personally run 51/20 for divine sacrifice, but they've got all the important holy talents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coro View Post
    When asked what rotation they use, this was their response, "Basically cast flash of light unless they drop below 70%, then I cast holy light on them", when asked if they holy shock (I know a LITTLE bit about pallies haha) they say "yes, on tanks". So, that's about all the information I have.
    This here sounds like the problem. If you wait until a tank is below 70% before casting holy light, then that tank is probably going to die as they won't have Light's Grace up to make for a quicker holy light cast. With Beacon, they also shouldn't need to directly heal the tank (only exception would be to get the flash of light hot running).

    Given the amount of damage tanks can take, you really don't ever want to cast anything other than holy light on them, or at the very least, let your Light's Grace buff wear off. When I'm healing a tank, I just beacon/sacred shield them, then heal anyone else. Maybe off tanks, random raid members, or myself. Mostly I'll use holy light, occasionally hit someone with a holy shock, very rarely use fol.

    Ka Pai, GMT+12 recruiting now!

  4. #4
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    I agree with Odene...

    I don't really use a rotation for healing, but when the raid and the tanks take no real damage i use a 2-3 FoL 1 HL roration to keep some healing on the tanks/raid while keeping Light's Grace up. It's dangerous just waiting for the tank to take damage before healing, it will give you better hpm but that is not really something you should aim for with tanks dying.

    If the two pala healers are holding back on healing do to fear of going oom, they should focus on getting the most out of divine plea and divine illumination. I use divine plea and are arcane torrent everytime they come off cooldown, i also use the endless mana potion every fight and use divine illumination very freely. If you don't use every ability you have to restore mana you will go oom, but if you do you will have the mana needed to spam alot of HL.

  5. #5
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    Gear and spec wise they seem fine, so I would tend to agree with the previous responses that the problem lies in their 'rotation'.

    When asked what rotation they use, this was their response, "Basically cast flash of light unless they drop below 70%, then I cast holy light on them", when asked if they holy shock (I know a LITTLE bit about pallies haha) they say "yes, on tanks". So, that's about all the information I have.
    FoL just doesn't have enought HPS to keep tanks up given how hard bosses hit these days. We need to use holy light as our primary heal to keep tanks alive. Your healers have the right idea gear wise.... they are stacking intel.. so tell them to make good use of it. Use holy light a lot more. If they are having mana issues remind them to use of their mana recovery abilites. Use divine illumination and divine plea as much as possible - they restore a ton of mana. Make sure they have mana pots and are not afraid to use them. Don't forget the tools other classes have to retore mana - inervate, mana tide, hymn of hope etc, call for them if they are really needed. Also, if the fight allows it, I go and whack on the boss to restore mana via seal of wisdom.

    Beyond that, make sure they are using their other abilities as well. Sacred shield on the tank with the FoL hot running helps to mitigate some tank damage. And keeping beacon up at all times is imperative

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coro View Post
    When asked what rotation they use, this was their response, "Basically cast flash of light unless they drop below 70%, then I cast holy light on them", when asked if they holy shock (I know a LITTLE bit about pallies haha) they say "yes, on tanks". So, that's about all the information I have.

    They need to make a choice. You need to gear for 90% holy light or 90% fol. It sounds like they are trying to mix the two which is disaster.

    I HATE the fol build but I have seen it work so it has a lot to do with preference but they need to pick one and gear appropriately or they are worthless.

    I can not see the main tank healer's gear but the offtank seems to be on the right track for a holy light build. He should be casting almost entirely holy lights during a fight.

    Also neither of them has aura mastery...which is not required but for 1 point it does have some good utility on a few fights., definitely more useful than 2/2 imp lay. I would take it.

  7. #7
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    They need to make a choice. You need to gear for 90% holy light or 90% fol. It sounds like they are trying to mix the two which is disaster.
    This. Additionally, you may wish to just stick with 51/0/20. I say leave Divine Sac for the Ret Pallies.

    There should also be a discussion somewhere (I'll go look for it) about the benefits of the 5% +Healing in Prot, vs. the 3% Crit you gain from Ret. My decision came down to the fact that my HLs already hit so hard increasing their size doesn't do much for me or for the raid, but 3% crit increases longevity.
    || Tierax || ADELANTE-GUILD.COM - US ARTHAS (PVP) ||
    Healing Officer / Holy Paladin / Retired Protection Warrior

  8. #8
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    Thanks, I appreciate all the great advice.

    I relayed the message of HL more, time DP and DI better, use mana pots, and call out for mana regen abilities. His response was "I'll run out of mana but I'll try it" so we'll see.
    "If the tank dies, it's the healers fault. If the healer dies, it's the tanks fault. If the dps dies, it's their own damn fault!"

  9. #9
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    Oh, also tell him to replace fol glyph with holy light glyph.

    There are really no fights that require any outside help for mana management. I also rarely use mana pots.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meeks View Post
    Oh, also tell him to replace fol glyph with holy light glyph.

    There are really no fights that require any outside help for mana management. I also rarely use mana pots.
    He has FoL, HL, and Seal of Wisdom. What should he have instead of FoL?
    "If the tank dies, it's the healers fault. If the healer dies, it's the tanks fault. If the dps dies, it's their own damn fault!"

  11. #11
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    I'm partial to Glyph of Beacon of Light. You have to refresh Beacon less often which saves you mana, one GCD, and one less thing to do when (potentially) the **** is hitting the fan. Most people have a limited attention span, and between Sacred Shield/Judgements/(optional HOT)/actual healing. you can easily forget things. And forgetting Beacon can be fatal. ^^;

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coro View Post
    He has FoL, HL, and Seal of Wisdom. What should he have instead of FoL?
    When I looked at armory I saw wisdom/beacon/fol


    I would run wisdom/beacon/hl

  13. #13
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    Most people run with glyphs of wisdom/HL/Beacon, so tell him to replace FoL with Beacon.

    When I mentioned all the mana recovery abilities (innervate, mana tide etc).. it was more to keep in the back of your mind.. As Meeks pointed out, its rare to actually have to use them. DP and DI restore/conserve a ton of mana, and good use of those combined with a good starting mana pool should be more than enough for most fights.

    It might take them some time to get used to the new style of healing - using their cooldowns more effectively, mana management etc, but encourage them to keep at it

  14. #14
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    Yeah we ran ToC10 last night and cleared the entire thing without a single wipe. Made a huge difference. Like you said, he has to get use to the mana mangement, but that's definitly what we needed. Thanks.
    "If the tank dies, it's the healers fault. If the healer dies, it's the tanks fault. If the dps dies, it's their own damn fault!"

  15. #15

    Rotation

    I didn't read what everyone else said but looking at their spec a major problem on your MT pally is no Divinity. Point for point Divinity gives more healing that the crit in the Ret tree. Also most importantly, every paladin should be shocking imo pretty much every time it is off CD. Most if not all pally healing procs come from shock and it is a great quick heal... so why aren't they using it always. I hope they are using their beacon intelligently and never healing the target with beacon on it. They need to make smart use of sacred sheild. They should make sure that it always has a flash of light hot on. Imo besides keeping the FoL hot up - flash isn't needed - just HoL. If they do this - all of this they should be pulling 6-8k hps easily on boss fights... tank will not die with that hps glued on their ass.

    Edit tell him to take out point on imp judgement (complete waste) and the the points in santity of battle and put them in divinity trade the glyph of FoL for glyph of shock. Also imo imp conc and aura mastery (my god I love aura mastery) is worth more than the point ins imp lay and imp wis - one of your pallies should make this trade
    Last edited by Rash Limbaugh; 11-02-2009 at 05:44 PM.

  16. #16
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    the MT paladin is using a couple Mp5 gems and a few cheap enchants.

    i also noticed his haste is very low for that gear level, switching out some gear pieces to increase your haste will improve throughput. do not gem for it though!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rash Limbaugh View Post
    I didn't read what everyone else said but looking at their spec a major problem on your MT pally is no Divinity. Point for point Divinity gives more healing that the crit in the Ret tree. Also most importantly, every paladin should be shocking imo pretty much every time it is off CD. Most if not all pally healing procs come from shock and it is a great quick heal... so why aren't they using it always. I hope they are using their beacon intelligently and never healing the target with beacon on it. They need to make smart use of sacred sheild. They should make sure that it always has a flash of light hot on. Imo besides keeping the FoL hot up - flash isn't needed - just HoL. If they do this - all of this they should be pulling 6-8k hps easily on boss fights... tank will not die with that hps glued on their ass.

    Edit tell him to take out point on imp judgement (complete waste) and the the points in santity of battle and put them in divinity trade the glyph of FoL for glyph of shock. Also imo imp conc and aura mastery (my god I love aura mastery) is worth more than the point ins imp lay and imp wis - one of your pallies should make this trade


    Why would you ever use shock on cooldown let alone glyph for it! It is by far out worst spell. Its only use is that it is instant cast so can be used while on the move or if you do not have time to get a cast off for some reason.

    Why would you use a terrible, inefficient heal on cool down so when a situation comes that you actually need it you are screwed.

    It is ok to use it a lot on some encounters but if you are using it only because it is ready then you are hurting yourself.

  18. #18
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    I didn't read what everyone else said but looking at their spec a major problem on your MT pally is no Divinity. Point for point Divinity gives more healing that the crit in the Ret tree.
    Why do you need +Heals, when your HLs heal every raid member for 90% of their HP, and heal the tanks in 3seconds?

    Doesn't that Crit for the mana regen and bigger HLs make some sense?
    || Tierax || ADELANTE-GUILD.COM - US ARTHAS (PVP) ||
    Healing Officer / Holy Paladin / Retired Protection Warrior

  19. #19
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    Personally I've got 5/5 Divinity, as I'm 51/20 for DiSac. Speccing into ret for the crit might give me a little more regen, but whatever way I spec I'm still gonna do alot of overhealing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rash Limbaugh View Post
    Also imo imp conc and aura mastery (my god I love aura mastery) is worth more than the point ins imp lay and imp wis - one of your pallies should make this trade
    Imp conc aura is more of a pvp talent than anything else, I agree with you on aura master though. Taking 1 point out of imp loh to grab am is 100% worth it. Imp wisdom is something he should keep. For hardmodes especially any kind of extra regen is worth it.

    Ka Pai, GMT+12 recruiting now!

  20. #20
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    whoa

    My main is a holy pally I've raided almost all content and no offense I don't know how a pally is getting beat out by a holy priest. The only healers that ever get close to beating my out of meters (even if they don't always tell the truth.) are Disc. priest. But, you should really just have them learn to scared shield the tank they are healing, beacon the other and flash for the HoT then they should either FoL and if need be HL. The big thing with pally I've met others that spec and mainly go for haste aka for depending mainly on FoL.
    Other like myself have spec'd for crit and FoL and then get major crits if they go lower than 80% or so. Also someone in the guild that has some knowledge or have the pallys themselves research a little on what they should go for depending on how they spec'd. If any questions are pondered apon feel free to private message or email me.
    Minicredwink-Stormreaver

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