I am playing a fury warrior and my problem is I am not doing enough DPS to be a full time raider in my guild (Ulduar25 cleared to Yogg, still working on Yogg). Iíve read the forums at elitistjerks, wowhead and tankspot DPS discussion, I watched tutorial videos on how to play a fury warrior, studied the rotation, practiced on the target dummy and so on.
For some reason the stats in armory do not correspond to the stats listed in game so I am going to list here the stats that I see on in-game character pane: AP 4171, hit 365, crit 35.18, exper 19/19 (unbuffed).
My DPS is between 2.8k and 3.2k on a 25 man, fully buffed. On 10 man or in heroics is around 2.5k or lower. Our guild leader wants to see minimum 4k DPS (sustained, 25man) before I get a shot at being a full time raider.
I am aware of the fury/arms discussion and so on, but even with the nerf to TG, I read about fury warriors that put out 4k+ dps on a regular basis in 25 man raids.
On my rotation, I keep BT and WW on cool down all the time, and Slam when BS procs, HS when rage is full, execute at less than 20% health and so on. I think I understand the fury warrior play style and I follow the rotation prescribed in the above-mentioned forums.
I am looking for some insights as to why is my DPS so low. Is it the gear, or my skill lacking?
Assuming a perfect rotation, what do you guys think about my DPS, is it lower than it should be considering my gear?
I just did a 25 man ulduar. I'm sitting at No.3 (overall dmg) with dps 4565 - (which is a bit too low, i know). Compare to No.5, another fury warrior, his dps is 4800ish.
The major difference we have:
1, I'm ArP heavy but without Grim Toll/Darkmoon (36% passive); he's heavy str/ap base. We have a 800 AP difference.
2, He does twice of heroic strikes as I do.
3, I happen to care too much about Bloodsurge proc.
Suggestion to you:
1, I believe HS plays the most important rule to a fury's DPS. I will try apply as many HS as I could tomorrow.
What are your thoughts on your ability to manage your rage? Do you never get rage starved? do you spam HS too much some times? (Note that I am mainly interested in your opinion for 25 man raids as they grant the most rage generation unless you have poor melee synergy)
In my opinion managing your rage is one of the biggest factors in your DPS once you know the rotation. being able to make that judgement call on weather you can get that extra HS off or not with out risking missing a BT/WW Will help your DPS a lot. I have no Idea how long you have been playing fury so you may have not developed this skill yet.
Just my 2c on the situation. It will be interesting to see your WWS parses when you upload them.
If you are curious about your max theoretical DPS I would take a look at MaxDPS.com it would give you a decently accurate number for that. I am not sure of the algorithms used but I am decently sure that it does not factor in any overlaps in CD's and I remember in the past certain values of expertise would make the calculation be ridiculously high so don't take what ever number it gives you as 100% truth.
Make sure that you are using your cooldowns as often as you can. Getting synergy with trinket procs and heroism will help quite a bit.
If you know what boss % your RL calls out heroism you can figure if you can pop your cd's 1x/2x/3x during the fight. You do not want to be in a situation where your cd's are on cooldown and the shammy pops heroism.
Thegreatme, I actually downloaded your tutorials the other day .... Thank you for that.
Re: HS, i admit i have the tendency to overuse it and get rage starved. In the last 2 runs i was more careful saving my rage.
After watching your video i got an idea seeing the closeups of your button action and I actually macro-ed BT and WW to one button like this:
/castsequence Bloodthirst, Whirlwind, Bloodthirst
The last Bloodthirst I added because I noticed without it (i.e. using /castsequence Bloodthirst, Whirlwind) I would lose 1 GCD without being able to use BT even after it became available. Strange, but now the macro works well and i only need 1 button to keep BT and WW on cooldown at all times.
I have HS on the next button and Slam on the third, so essentially my whole rotation is bound to 3 buttons now. Of couse, Executes on low health, and Cleave on aoe trash pulls.
I use power auras to get a visual clue when bloodsurge procs, and it works well.
During TBC i played a rogue, and this warrior was born in the WotLK. I love it ! So I am new to fury warriors and the warrior class in general, but not new to melee dps. In TBC I got to clear TK except Kael, so I have raiding experience.
Now, I have the [item]Inevitable Defeat [/item] which will give me more expertise if I equip it in the OH, but I will lose some dps because it is a lower dps weapon than the [item]Ironsoul[/item]. I will run some tests and see how it goes.
Now, regarding the finer point of whether to get an extra HS without missing a BT/WW ... hmmm. That is a skill I need to look into. I am doing research now and accumulating as much info as I can and at the same time I am practicing.
I also burn Berserk/Bloodrage/Deathwish/Recklessness, in general whenever they are available, but of course I try to align them with bloodlust (or heroism, for you aliance guys ) when possible. The Orc racial attack power buff (the name escapes me now) is embedded in the BT macro as well so it is popped whenever it is available.
I am hoping for the gloves token from Mimiron, then I have enough emblems of conquest to buy the chest, and this will give me the 4 set T8 bonus, and if Worldcarver drops as well, then I am expecting to see a jump in dps.
Thank you for your input. Keep it up, I am getting ideas here ...
What happened was i got the cloak from Razorscale (Drape of the Drakerider) and I got the Worldcarver from Ignis, so I equipped those immediately (I had mats to do Berserker on the Worldcarver). That got my expertise over the cap actually.
If you look at my armory I got 4 T8 pieces but those were equipped after the raid. The WWS shows my dps with 2 set T8 and 2 set T7 bonuses. So I am curious tomorrow to see how much dps i picked up with the 4set T8 bonus.
I am No. 7 overall with 3.5k dps which is a big improvement actually, highest number I have seen so far (overall dps). On some fights I got as high as 4.5k, first time there I assume Worldcarver made a big difference, and the fact that I reached the expertise cap.
So I am ready for your critique. I am sure I can do better. I am going to look closer at the WWS report tomorrow, and I'll be back here for discussion.
Last night you had averaged 4335 DPS on your defeated bosses and last tuesday when my guild was clearing farm content I averaged 5190, but we did Hodir so that skews it a bit. so you really aren't too far off in terms of your boss DPS but there is always room for improvement. Also for my WWS report my whirlwind damage is my top damaging ability where for you it's melee.
I noticed on kologarn you only did 4506 DPS, You should be doing way more than that. I use cleave cleave on that fight over HS because it will also hit the boss while you are attacking the arms. I noticed you were getting imp Icy talons on that fight over WF, and it only had 76% uptime. Do you guys have an enhancement shammy that usually shows up? because having that 20% haste buff for the entire fight really helps with rage generation.
Pretty much the same thing on razorscale. Fury warriors are really good at AoE when there are only a few targets and this is a fight with that. You sustained 3941 DPS on that fight and I sustained 5026. Swing was your top damaging ability and for me both whirlwind and HS were over swing. Honestly this looks like you are just not getting enough rage to use your abilities. Not counting HS glyph rage gains I gained 551 rage that fight and you only gained 285. You aren't using your berserker rage/blood rage when ever it's up so if you are having rage issues try to use those more.
Other than that there really isn't much else that catches my eye for being out of place. It will be interesting to see what the other people on this forum have to say. Hope this helps.
From my experience the best way to under perform as fury is to mismanage your rage. Just to echo Thegreatme's recomendation to keep Bloodrage and Berserker Rage on CD. The only reason to not use those skills is at a time when you already have a full rage bar.
In regards to rage production talents/skills you have 5 and I'll reference them all as to their rage production value.
Unbridled Wrath. (you spent 5 points in this) pretty expensive and not always considered worth the cost. (the following is copied from wowhead)
1 point = ~0.13 Rage per second (Approx)
2 point = 7.8 Rage per min
3 point = 15.6 Rage per min
4 point = 23.4 Rage per min
5 point = 39 Rage per min
Anger Management. (you didn't get this talent) If you're having rage problems its possibly worth it.
1 talent point = 20 rage per min.
The Intensify Rage talent really buffs both Bloodrage and Berserker Rage. (which you spent 3/3 points on) Bloodrage has a 40 sec CD and Berserker Rage has a 20 sec CD. That makes them both 50% more effective.
Bloodrage. gives 20 total rage and can be talented to give 30 rage. Not often talented into for DPS warriors. Its not on the GCD so won't mess with your rotation.
(Assuming Intensify Rage talent but not the Improved Bloodrage talent)
30 rage per min.
Berserker Rage. Instant cure for the rage dry spot and even more rage if you're taking any other sort of damage.
(Assuming Intensify Rage talent)
1 point = 30 Rage per min
2 point = 60 Rage per min
Weigh the costs and consider what's the best way to fit some extra rage into your spec.
I noticed on kologarn you only did 4506 DPS, You should be doing way more than that. I use cleave cleave on that fight over HS because it will also hit the boss while you are attacking the arms.
Something I noticed in my combat text - on Kologarn cleave only hits 1 target, even if WW hits all 3. Its odd, but I've tested it from quite a few positions, and my combat log is reporting that cleave is only hitting one target.
Now, it may actually hit multiple targets and just not report it for some reason, but my combat log & MSBT are showing only 1 hit for cleave even when WW is showing 6 hits (2 weapons 3 targets)
Thegreatme: I never used cleave on Kolo, I'll try that next time, usually we have a palli picking up the adds after the right arm dies and my understanding was not to pull aggro on those. But you are right, while dps-ing the arm cleave would hit the boss as well. Good point.
We do have an enh shammy, but he wasn't on that Kolo fight, so that explains the lack of WF. I don't know what's up with the 76% uptime on icy talons.
My rage is most of the time over 60% but it is very spiky, and I do find myself rage starved at times. That might explain the loss of dps. Also, because I use that macro, BT and WW are kept on CD at all times, but of course if rage is low they will turn into white swings.
On Razorscale and Ignis, I still had Ironsoul / Inevitable Defeat as weapons, after Ignis I equipped Worldcarver in MH and kept Ironsoul in OH, the higher dps after that can also be a result of the better MH weapon.
Superspy23: I put points in Unbridled wrath to help with my rage generation, we run with a pally and get might and have a warrior tank so shouts are not really needed, therefore I thought useless to put any points in shouts. From my research, unbridled wrath is not that great but I could'd find any better use of talents to get me further in the tree. I ran with a spec that didn't have it and it was a bit painful.
Looking at the WWS noticed that my dps on Freya was only 2.5k or so, I believe my buddy stopped the combatlog in the middle of that fight, we killed Freya and Thorim and they don't show on that report.
Anyway, I am pleased with the results, I am curious tonight if the 4 set T8 bonuses will make a big difference. In my opinion, the upgrades I got last night were pretty big and I should see more dps now.
Thegreatme, can you please detail on the remark you made above "judgement call on weather you can get that extra HS off or not with out risking missing a BT/WW". I am trying to diagnose what I am doing wrong so I can start looking into it. Rage management could indeed be the issue.
To help describe what I meant I will use this example:
You have 23 rage, and BT has 1.5 seconds left on it's CD, can you do an extra HS and still do the BT the moment it comes off CD?
the answer is entirely dependent on the rage generation of your off hand and your chance to crit. Honestly it's hard to judge weather or not you could get an extra HS off on paper, it takes lots of time getting used to playing a fury warrior. after a while you (or at least I have) get a feel for your natural rage generation, and as such you can predict what will happen. Is it possible you will be wrong? Of course, but that's just the nature of RNG. Is this the safest way to play a fury warrior? No, but I find it keeps things more interesting. Would I suggest this play style to others? ONLY if they were very conscious of their rage and their rage generation (this is why my UI has so many rage displays)
1, I resocked all +Arp gem to +Str, now unbuffed AP is 4400 ish and Crit 34%.
2, paid more attention to HS.
3, end result is I pulled out 5406 dps on Ignis (4506 in 10 man with 1 slag pot). and 5100 on assembly of iron.
1, ignore Bloodrage proc until the cycle when both BT and WW are on a 4s cooldown.
2, HS after everything as long as rage permits.
3, haste seems to be better than it's actual value.
Last edited by coolposter; 06-13-2009 at 01:20 AM.
Hmmm, like somebody commented on one of my previous posts, your main damage comes from melee (white) swings, did you get rage starved frequently during that fight? I don't know if that's the correct conclusion, in my case I didn't watch my rage too close to be able to tell.