+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 43

Thread: 3/3 Deep Wounds VS 3/3 Focus Rage

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,371
    Yeah, it was mostly an AoE fix, because tanking e.g. whelps in Ony and having Deep Wounds run on all of em is not the intention of the ability :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,644
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    Yeah, it was mostly an AoE fix, because tanking e.g. whelps in Ony and having Deep Wounds run on all of em is not the intention of the ability :P
    Well, it would explain why Warriors are getting rocked in AoE threat in 3.3... :P
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    I <3 Focused Rage, Shield Spec, and Deep Wounds!! I don't want to give any up! =(

    Also, Shockwave and Tclap applying Deep Wounds makes me giggle on concept.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    11
    I have tried both and I prefer focused rage.

    The main difference is that by reducing the cost of your abilities, focus rage let you use them "earlier", for exemple when you begin a fight, it is better to use your SB when you have 17 rage than waiting to have 20 ...

    Other thing is that we are not always facing infinite rage encounters ...

    We have encounters with tank rotation ... that mean that we are not always the target of the boss and we only generate rage with our abilities, that mean that every point saved is more important
    We have encounters like Jarraxus or Vezax with low rage generation where every rage point saved is also very important.
    etc.
    On the other side while multitanking, both are very usefull...

    My question about threat would be "is deepwounds still interesting as we could get 3% more crit (expecially with devastate at 100 % damages) ?"

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by Kojiyama View Post
    Well, it would explain why Warriors are getting rocked in AoE threat in 3.3... :P
    No, that's Paladin+consecrate+undead=why do I even bother.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,371
    Quote Originally Posted by craggan View Post
    My question about threat would be "is deepwounds still interesting as we could get 3% more crit (expecially with devastate at 100 % damages) ?"
    If you're talking Deep Wounds vs Cruelty, I'ld say about twice the buck for your talent points by speccing Deep Wounds. Depends on your raid setup ofc, the more agi/crit raid buffs you have, the better DW is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,644
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    If you're talking Deep Wounds vs Cruelty, I'ld say about twice the buck for your talent points by speccing Deep Wounds. Depends on your raid setup ofc, the more agi/crit raid buffs you have, the better DW is.
    Fully raid-buffed at the numbers I'm looking at, Deep Wounds should be between 3-4 times more effective per talent point in increasing TPS compared to Cruelty. The only talents better than Deep Wounds per point are Improved Defensive Stance and Vigilance.

    For Shield Slam, for example, Deep Wounds is nearly a 10% increase in average damage per execute. 1% crit would be something like a 0.9% increase in average damage per execute. Cruelty is not a very good threat talent, honestly...
    Last edited by Kojiyama; 01-01-2010 at 08:01 PM.
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    122
    The (stealth) change to damage shield not being able to crit came a long time ago.

    Shamefully, it was due to the pvp aspect of it. You could pop shield block and watch a rogue vaporize himself.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Williamsburg, VA
    Posts
    719
    Quote Originally Posted by Agmar View Post
    The (stealth) change to damage shield not being able to crit came a long time ago.

    Shamefully, it was due to the pvp aspect of it. You could pop shield block and watch a rogue vaporize himself.
    Back in 3.0, when I was in mostly BIS Naxx gear, I was in the kitchen grabbing a soda when my roommate shouts out "yo you're about to get ganked!"

    About 30 seconds later he says "uh... nevermind. You killed him. Somehow."

    Checking the combat log, he got rocked by my damage shield. I'm guessing he was in mostly greens or some such, but it was still quite hi-larious.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    580
    Anecdotal but, I haven't used FR on my warrior since the change to shield spec. Generally I haven't found rage starvation to be an issue because of it, and I think those 3 points are better spent in a lot of other places.

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    That is my current spec.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    536
    I will say I moved to 5/5 shield spec myself to try it out. I'm still 3/3 FR as well but...well, I don't run out of rage most of the time. And that's blowing HS/Cleave on every swing. Some fights where I don't get hit often still cause rage issues, but that's to be expected.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    interesting indeed, i guess i'm used to having a certain "feel" for my rage, and I'd probably never drop focused rage, but functionally that may not be optimal, whoda thunk!
    I think it really depends on your playstyle, and about 30% less procs (60-20 = 40, 40/60 = 2/3 ~ 30%) from shield spec in ICC also hinders shield spec's viability.

    See with my playstyle, and especially with BQS which is known to be not the greatest threat generator, I am trying to keep up HS as much as possible. A lot of people will micro manage their rage and not HS unless about 40 or 50 rage. I personally end up micromanaging it around 30 to try and cut it as close as possible and get the most threat as I can. In situations where I get close to rage starved, I'm both able to HS more and more often, and if I get a lucky (or in this case possibly unlucky) passive streak(I know what you're thinking, all that time you're gaining rage from SS, but it just doesn't FEEL like that to me), I can devastate/revenge/shield slam faster if I've used up all my rage, at least that's how it feels. When I went 5/5 shield spec 0/3 focused rage, I felt like I was rage starved a LOT more than with 2/5 shield spec and 3/3 focused rage.

    Where are you guys taking the other point out of to get 3/3 FR, 5/5 SS, and 3/3 DW? I can see 5/5 SS and 2/3FR if you take the points out of imp disciplines, but I can't imagine taking a point out of something else in the tree to finish out FR.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Where are you guys taking the other point out of to get 3/3 FR, 5/5 SS, and 3/3 DW? I can see 5/5 SS and 2/3FR if you take the points out of imp disciplines, but I can't imagine taking a point out of something else in the tree to finish out FR.
    Well you can take a look for yourself, but I only have 1/2 in Imp disciplines.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    16,428
    0/2 improved revenge Agg.

    READ THIS: Posting & Chat Rules
    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
    I will never be a kaz.. no one can reach the utter awesomeness of you.
    http://i.imgur.com/3vbQi.gif

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    0/2 improved revenge Agg.
    Ah, I guess that makes sense to an extent, but it seems like unless you are glyphing for devastate that 2/2 or even 1/2 imp revenge would be more threat than 3/3 FR over 2/3 FR. That's just a gut estimate though, I have precisely zero numbers to back that up. But if you're glyphing for devastate then ya, that makes complete sense, especially since if you're doing this you're probably going for max threat anyways, which involves glyph of devastate.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,644
    Oddly enough, the most 'useless' threat talent to drop is Gag Order numerically-speaking, if you don't Glyph Devastate. However not doing that is a massive TPS loss so I wouldn't really recommend it.

    Glyphing Devastate and dropping Imp Revenge is a pretty viable thing to do.
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    That Place Above the USA
    Posts
    2,282
    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    No, that's Paladin+consecrate+undead+instacast Holy Wrath on TCish CD=why do I even bother.
    Fixed. And THAT is what I giggle at, seeing the stunned mobs.

    Simple question here, but isn't it either:
    1) If you need more rage, pull moar, or
    2) Go tank something bigger and get smacked harder, or
    3) Get off your arse and start doing more dps?

    Also, you can do things to take more damage, like not throw out demo shout, wear lolbrewfest trinkets instead of black heart, etc.? It's a small change but I find it helps resource starvation, and not just for warriors, but paladins and bears as well (although I have never been rage starved as a bear since level 70 and undergeared).

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Ah, I guess that makes sense to an extent, but it seems like unless you are glyphing for devastate that 2/2 or even 1/2 imp revenge would be more threat than 3/3 FR over 2/3 FR. That's just a gut estimate though, I have precisely zero numbers to back that up. But if you're glyphing for devastate then ya, that makes complete sense, especially since if you're doing this you're probably going for max threat anyways, which involves glyph of devastate.
    I'm glyphed for Devestate. Shoulda included that.

    I've seen a gain in TPS since removing Rev from my rotation and focusing on Devastate; also it makes the priority list simpler. Rage loss is a bigger problem, but that's why I have FR.


    @Insahnity: I don't recommend anything that provides more of a risk to your staying up just to get more rage. Unless you're really, really overgeared.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,644
    Insahnity, rage is honestly not the problem. The problem is that Shockwave and Thunder Clap are both on cooldowns and Cleaves, even when glyphed, only hits 3 targets.

    There is really not any way to keep up with the sustained AoE threat of Paladins with Thunder Clap alone. It's often possible to get initial aggro, but once Shockwave has disappeared enough into the past, Warriors will start losing targets incrementally. Once you lose them, you won't ever get them back as you won't even have the advantage of Damage Shield threat in that case.

    Trying to do acrobatics to circumvent the realities of this is a lost cause. Just let the Paladin tank it. :P
    Maintainer of Rawr.ProtWarr theorycrafting tool. Feel free to PM suggestions or feature requests!

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    718
    You can easily out threat a paladin on aoe tanking STOP CLEAVING tab through the targets and hit the bloody things with your high threat attacks. The pally only consecrate locking them and on 3 targets he is hitting with hammer but thats all easy to out threat.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts