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Thread: And now....trinkets!

  1. #1
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    And now....trinkets!

    I hate trinkets for warriors. I swear some of the best items are lowest in ilevel. never makes any sense.

    So anyway, I intend to keep all three for swap-on-use, but I wanted some opinions as to which was the most effective pair out of these three:

    Ferver of the Frostborn
    The Black Heart
    Glyph of Indomitability


    I'm so torn! Glyph is just hands-down awesome, that's not going anywhere. Fervor is pretty nice too, but kind of redundant..it has some similar function to Glyph. Which leans me towards Black Heart, but I think teh on-use effect of Fervor is more effective even though I lose over 1k health.

    So..ideas?

  2. #2
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    Well, I looked through your achievements to see what you would have the most access to. Seems you only run 10 man Raids right?

    I was going to suggest the Royal Seal of King Llane, but you have not done any keepers or the rest of Ulduar . I can't really think of any trinkets off the top of my head but that is probably going to be the best trinkets you can get. You usually want to aim for stam, or even ones with Stam and a on use proc.

    Stick with The Black Heart and Glyph. Fervor is good for some fights but not all. With the armor bonus from The Black Heart. You should get more benefit overall regardless of what encounters you may go through.

  3. #3
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    I would go with a Black Heart Glyph combo. The Black Heart already has 126 stamina and if you compare it to single target where the other options shine its proc is worth around 90-100 stamina which makes it a clear favorite.

    For the majority of fights the armor on the Glyph of Indomitability is much better than the dodge on Fervor. And the Fervor's proc is sub-par while the Glyph's on use is the best in the game. I would still keep the Fervor for Gunship, Saurfang and for future encounters in ICC that may favor avoidance.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazlex View Post
    Well, I looked through your achievements to see what you would have the most access to. Seems you only run 10 man Raids right?

    I was going to suggest the Royal Seal of King Llane, but you have not done any keepers or the rest of Ulduar . I can't really think of any trinkets off the top of my head but that is probably going to be the best trinkets you can get. You usually want to aim for stam, or even ones with Stam and a on use proc.

    Stick with The Black Heart and Glyph. Fervor is good for some fights but not all. With the armor bonus from The Black Heart. You should get more benefit overall regardless of what encounters you may go through.
    Pretty much ten mans yeah. I can't get into a decent guild raid group with my work schedule so I live off of pugs. I kinda skipped Ulduar almost entirely after some drama caused me to hiatus from 3.2 to now. Looks like everyone pretty much concurred with my thoughts on this. So I'll stick with heart until I get Skeleton Key (waaaaaay down the line)
    Last edited by Eisen; 12-26-2009 at 01:14 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by krc View Post
    I would go with a Black Heart Glyph combo. The Black Heart already has 126 stamina and if you compare it to single target where the other options shine its proc is worth around 90-100 stamina which makes it a clear favorite.

    For the majority of fights the armor on the Glyph of Indomitability is much better than the dodge on Fervor. And the Fervor's proc is sub-par while the Glyph's on use is the best in the game. I would still keep the Fervor for Gunship, Saurfang and for future encounters in ICC that may favor avoidance.
    I'd agrue that currently the 258 Jug's Vit's on use is the best in the game, but glyph's on use isn't bad. Def. one of the best 10 man trinket on uses.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  6. #6
    Maybe I'm missing something... I ran some numbers on the glyph and found that almost any stam trinket beat it out in terms of effective health. Are you guys suggesting that the glyph would be better than another stam trinket, or are you simply not suggesting another stam trinket because the only other one available from 10-man content is the one from Yogg?

    My suggestion would be to PUG Ignis 25, it's very easily PUGgable, especially if it's the weekly raid quest that week, and the stam trinket he drops is IMO superior to the glyph (keep in mind that the glyph will do nothing against magic attacks, not that magic is a huge worry atm). Or, if you've got it, my math tells me that the brewfest stamina trinkets beat out (barely) the Glyph in terms of EH, though the glyph's on use is obviously much better.

    Just my $.02, and I definitely could be wrong.

    EDIT: Actually, after looking at it, I think the Ignis trinket only wins out because it works for magic damage as well as physical. I show the glyph as being slightly above in terms of EH.


    THE MATH:

    Here are numbers I crunched in a guide I wrote for some guildies:

    I'll take the Black Heart (Stamina + Armor Proc), and Glyph of Indomitability (All Armor). And I’ll use 38916 for the HP number and 25620 as the Armor number, as those are the numbers I’m rocking on Mahler. Here’s what we come up with:

    Base 98846 EH
    Glyph 103034 EH
    TBH 119075 EH (with proc)
    TBH 102047 EH (without proc)
    Brew 103164 EH

    Thus The Black Heart wins out for the trinket slot against physical damage, with the Brewfest Trinket taking tops versus Magic (barely).


    And a sample of the math (I'm not gonna write every equation out here, the example should be enough to show I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass. And again, I definitely could be doing something wrong)

    Base Armor w/Black Heart Proc (32676) / (Base Armor + 16635 (level 83 constant)) = .6626 (66.26%) damage reduction

    66.26 mitigation = 33.74% of damage is not mitigated and so...

    Base Health (38436) / unmitigated damage (.3374) = 119075 Effective Health (pre-buffs)
    Last edited by Monteverdi; 12-28-2009 at 10:58 AM.

  7. #7
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    You're essentially correct Monteverdi. The stam trinkets beat out Glyph of Indominability for most circumstances, HOWEVER, because armor gets better the more stam you have (and stam gets better the more armor you have) there is actually an inflection point for where glyph of indominability becomes better than heart of iron. It is at really high gear levels, and I just recently hit it, it's around 52.4kHP buffed (for warriors at least).

    Now other stam trinkets do become better if there is magic damage involved, and you will want to switch them out on a per fight basis as needed, however the extra cooldown glyph gives typically makes it better than a brewfest trinket (you lose like 6 stam worth of EHP in exchange for a pretty decent cooldown). Furthermore, people argue that (not counting any ICC trinkets) glyph is 2nd BiS second only to 258 Jug's Vitality because if you roll with dual Jug's Vitality (which is the only trinket better than the other aforementioned stam trinkets that we've already declared glyph better than depending on gear level and usability of the on use) the 245 Jug's effectively has no on use effect since it shares a cooldown with the 258 version. Therefore it is argued that between the benefit of absorbing damage via armor rather than just taking it to the face with stam (which I argue is negligible to an extent and what really matters is having the most EHP to survive full to dead scenarious) and the on use, it makes it better than dual Jug's because you get an extra oh shit button. For some fights I agree with this and I have started using dual Jug's because of it, for other fights (like Lady Deathwhisper for example) I do not agree. So situationally then, Glyph of Indominability becomes second BiS, and since you need 2 trinkets, it's BiS for your second trinket slot.

    That's why people propose you use glyph of indom.

    Posts with breakdowns:
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/5...ve-health.html there might be some breakdowns in there, but careful with that thread and read things with a grain of salt... that thread got... bloody...
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/5...ph+actual+math
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/5...ph+actual+math
    ^ Those two are probably going to be the best that you'll find on the matter, lots of good breakdowns and math.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    You're essentially correct Monteverdi. The stam trinkets beat out Glyph of Indominability for most circumstances, HOWEVER, because armor gets better the more stam you have (and stam gets better the more armor you have) there is actually an inflection point for where glyph of indominability becomes better than heart of iron. It is at really high gear levels, and I just recently hit it, it's around 52.4kHP buffed (for warriors at least).

    Now other stam trinkets do become better if there is magic damage involved, and you will want to switch them out on a per fight basis as needed, however the extra cooldown glyph gives typically makes it better than a brewfest trinket (you lose like 6 stam worth of EHP in exchange for a pretty decent cooldown). Furthermore, people argue that (not counting any ICC trinkets) glyph is 2nd BiS second only to 258 Jug's Vitality because if you roll with dual Jug's Vitality (which is the only trinket better than the other aforementioned stam trinkets that we've already declared glyph better than depending on gear level and usability of the on use) the 245 Jug's effectively has no on use effect since it shares a cooldown with the 258 version. Therefore it is argued that between the benefit of absorbing damage via armor rather than just taking it to the face with stam (which I argue is negligible to an extent and what really matters is having the most EHP to survive full to dead scenarious) and the on use, it makes it better than dual Jug's because you get an extra oh shit button. For some fights I agree with this and I have started using dual Jug's because of it, for other fights (like Lady Deathwhisper for example) I do not agree. So situationally then, Glyph of Indominability becomes second BiS, and since you need 2 trinkets, it's BiS for your second trinket slot.

    That's why people propose you use glyph of indom.

    Posts with breakdowns:
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/5...ve-health.html there might be some breakdowns in there, but careful with that thread and read things with a grain of salt... that thread got... bloody...
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/5...ph+actual+math
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/5...ph+actual+math
    ^ Those two are probably going to be the best that you'll find on the matter, lots of good breakdowns and math.
    This post is full of win. I love intelligent people who actually give you useful info instead of saying 'you're wrong!'

    Thanks for the links, I'd not considered a lot of that. I'll be adding the glyph to my list of 'to buy' trinkets (I don't have viable access to the 245 trinket... I just returned to the 25 man raid team, and thus the only real 25 man content I'm doing at the moment is ICC with some ToC farm tossed into the mix, which will quickly be phased out).

    Again, very informative reply, thank you

  9. #9
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    Or to say it in a healer way; The armor is better cause I can slack off more while you still get similar EH.
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  10. #10
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    Any thoughts on Corpse Tongue Coin? If my gear levels get higher Im thinking this might be really nice down the road with a good stam trink like the skeleton key/juggernauts vitality. Im usually dps and the tanks passed on it to save points. Seems like a good trink for hard hitters.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digz View Post
    Any thoughts on Corpse Tongue Coin? If my gear levels get higher Im thinking this might be really nice down the road with a good stam trink like the skeleton key/juggernauts vitality. Im usually dps and the tanks passed on it to save points. Seems like a good trink for hard hitters.
    Was looking at this the other day after it dropped in my wife's 25-man run.

    I don't like the main effect as I'd prefer EH over avoidance, but a couple % more dodge isn't a bad thng, esp with COtT. The secondary effect, however, is sexy. I would definately hold onto it for an avoidance set, but I'm iffy abut having it on a main set.

  12. #12
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    I wouldn't use the Corpe Tongue Coin in an EH/main set but I would keep it in your bags for any future bosses we see. It is very good for Saurfang an other future avoidance favoring bosses we might. With COtT the avoidance value is the same but it increases the likely hood that we are going to see a boss where we are taking hits while under 35% and surviving so the proc could turn out to be quite useful in the future.

  13. #13
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    what do you guys think about Ick's Rotting Thumb http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50235
    i like that on equip bonus and the extra 4k hp is nice, especially in conjunction with last stand.

  14. #14
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    Pretty much the same as Corpse Tongue. It's good for an avoidance set. I don't like the on-use as much though. It's basically an extra last stand, which isn't a bad thing. But by-the-numbers Corpse tongue is much better, I think.

  15. #15
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    To add with what Eisen said it is also similar to the Corpe Tongue because its on use/proc could be userful in a very isolated situation. Basically it is a down graded Corpse Tonguer that is useful to keep in your bags.

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