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Thread: Deathbringer Saurfang Unhittable Block Set?

  1. #21
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    Correction squts: it's not a problem in normal mode. I personally get a little edgy at how many marks we get, though it's still few enough to be managable and we have absurd raid healers.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
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  2. #22
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    for heroic we would (presumably) need to work around this
    Scent of Blood - Spell - World of Warcraft

    im not really sure if "their" would mean the blood beats or the players around them.
    Last edited by squats; 12-23-2009 at 04:31 PM.

  3. #23
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    ya... I'd guess it's the blood beasts, in which case, that is a bit of a problem, I think a warrior in SBV gear with shield wall could absorb all that damage, so it might be better for a warrior to tank it and the ranged just HAVE to dps it down quickly.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
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  4. #24
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    I fail to see any advantage to AoE tanking them, besides making a trivial encounter a lot more difficult.
    Even on hard mode, it's clear that focused targetting and well managed micro is the key to success... not another gimmick set.

  5. #25
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    yeah, agg, i dont think it would be possible on heroic because they will be hitting very hard, 12k ish.
    Last edited by Ciderhelm; 12-23-2009 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Please don't self-moderate the forums.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by squats View Post

    and yeah, agg, i dont think it would be possible on heroic because they will be hitting very hard, 12k ish.
    Well after expose armor the anub adds hit for about that unmittigated, so I don't think it's unreasonable.

    However, even if it is a bit on the harsh and blunt side... Edgewalker may be right. I still think it's an interesting idea though.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  7. #27
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    You might be able to pull it off with a piercing howl spec. Shield block then shockwave then piercing howl and book it.

  8. #28
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    I'm trying to catch up with this thread, apparently I missed most of the discussion yesterday. =)

    Let me see if I can sum up the idea and highlight what I think are the pivotal trade-offs.

    The idea is to (on 25-man, I'm assuming), pull out a third tank with an unhittable set. The idea being that then the adds can *hopefully* be full-blocked and reliably feed DBS no Blood Power while they're being killed?

    Initially you were saying to AoE nuke them down, but it's been said they are heavily AoE resistant, so they'll still have to be focused down, right?

    Second issue, the unhittable set has to overcome another 20% to work. Is that actually reachable by anyone? 121.6% miss+dodge+parry+block? Maybe in t10 with lots of setup for a Paladin? Probably not a warrior, so it requires your team to have an unhittable Paladin on call.

    Third problem, are you really gaining anything? You lose a dps to make add management a little easier? Rather than relying on your team to kite, you can just adhere the adds to a tank.

    The key to execution of DBS is to have everyone on point. The tanks swap sharp and fast. The whole team works together to juggle, taunt, and root/snare the adds as they are nuked down.

    *If* you can build this unhittable set under Chill, then I think it could make your fight a little more idiot-proof, but I think if your team already has challenges with that sort of coordination, maybe you're going to suffer the loss of focused dps?
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
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  9. #29
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    I'm not entirely sure I understand the benefits of this strategy as opposed to having hunters drop traps and Death Knights using Chains of Ice on as many as they can, considering that Chains of Ice may now be active on multiple targets at once I can't see how this strat would be beneficial in any way when compared to the current accepted strats for this encounter.

    Furthermore adding an extra tank than generally required is detrimental to most content currently out as it takes a DPS spot out of the raid group. I think 1 more dps with an aoe spell would be better than another tank in a block set.

    TLDR: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

  10. #30
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    There is an easier way of dealing with the adds, this is how we do it:
    1. Holy pally stands at the back of the room generating a ton of healing threat through righteous fury
    2. Hunters prep the kite area with slowing traps just before the spawn
    3. Adds spawn and are immediately chained by DK's (you can get 2 to 3 adds chained with just one DK, most raids will have more than one)
    4. Ranged split dps focus left and right, DK's keep spamming chains on adds moving too fast
    5. Rinse/repeat
    AOE threat can be a problem because there is a small bug where heart strike's off strike dmg can hit an add for the full amount as they phase in, also heals on tanks or melee that count as a self heal can also generate aggro which is why the RF pally is so useful.

    It's busy but the boss is actually not a dps race, even though it feels that way
    Can't wait to see this guy in hard mode.. that's gonna be some craziness.

    edit: oh there is another cute trick you can do on the adds, taunt bouncing them if the get too close to healers (their usual targets) and hoping the ranged are switched on enough to kill them before they get back to you.
    I must say one the busiest fights I've ever had was tanking saurfang in 10's, double chaining the adds with taunt bounces because we had no real ranged (melee had to kill them without being touched) all the while keeping my threat up with no aoe and getting the boss taunt rotation right.
    Oh yeah, I play with one arm... Sheesh!
    Last edited by Vlad; 12-27-2009 at 03:04 PM.

  11. #31
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    You know a funny quirk about Paladin healing threat I only learned this year (though it apparently goes back to Vanilla)?

    If you apply Righteous Fury, Healadins should only be doing roughly the same healing threat as every other sort of healer.

    Normally, healing threat is cut in half right? For Paladins healing threat is cut to a quarter (in theory to make it so a Paladin couldn't hold threat combining Righteous Fury with heals). So, using Righteous Fury (double threat, roughly) should only counter that extra reduction.

    Here's another small problem there. Healing threat is split over the targets available. That means on DBS10 you're splitting that threat 3 ways (2 adds + DBS). So, if there is no other threat, that Pally healing threat will register for the adds, but it will be measly compared to focused dps.

    I do like the idea though and like you described, I do prefer kiting and taunt dancing them. As a tank I'll usually wait for them to get close to their target then taunt them so they swing around (usually followed by Chains of Ice so they're stuck in place for a while but not rooted so they don't attack anyone in melee range).


    On the original topic though, has anyone tried this, has anyone succeeded at tanking them and not feeding BP to DBS?
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  12. #32
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    Paladins do quite a bit more threat than other healers with RF, a lot of it also has to do with the nature of their heals and passive talents available to other healers.

  13. #33
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    Perhaps Illumination is a big culprit as well. Haven't checked the resources, but if those power gains generate the usual threat, that'd be pretty heavy regardless of effectiveness of healing.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  14. #34
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    Yea, I don't really pay attention to the actual values, I just know that it is pretty noticeable as a tank when a paladin healer has RF on during fights with fresh add spawns. My original strategy for Saurfang used an RF paladin behind frost traps, and it works pretty flawlessly if they throw in a consecration right before the spawn time. Still more complex than it needs to be though in the long run. All about DPS coordination ^^

  15. #35
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    Yeah we decided to try the RF thing because it's a strat we used on some old skool boss that I can't remember right now, and because it got them going in the direction we wanted at the time.
    You're right about coordination being the key though, the problem is we tend to carry 5 - 10 undergeared/inexperienced raiders to our 25's.. for example one of the mages decided he'd frost nova the adds, not a bad thought but he did it right where they spawned.. thuper!
    Our 10's on the other hand seem easier to coordinate, probably because the 10 team I'm in has been together since ZA hards so you get used to each other.
    Are 10's killing 25's? hmm

  16. #36
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    I was on my shaman the other day in a 25 man icc. For DBS they had the back left blood beast get taken out by melee. They would do pali hammer or rogue lock it and all melee would burn it down before it was unstunned. Now one less add being kited and it seemed to work really well.

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