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Thread: Deathbringer Saurfang Unhittable Block Set?

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    Deathbringer Saurfang Unhittable Block Set?

    I think it is fairly clear that the Anub'arak ad tanking set that many of us have created would not be a viable choice for tanking Deathbringer Saurfang BUT.....

    What about using 3 tanks: 2 for boss tanking swaps back and forth on Rune of Blood and having a 3rd unhittable tank on the ads? Here are some assumptions / questions to determine whether this would be possible:
    • Fight mechanics description of the Saurfang gaining Blood Power is through Blood Link which only happen when he or his ads cause damage.
    • The TankSpot video mentioned that all damage was physical in this fight and thus amplify magic could be used. If that is the case then theoretically an unhittable Prot Warrior could avoid/block/mitigate all ad attacks?
    • How much damage do the ads do? I was under the impression that their damage was not that high which would make it feasible for an Anub'arak unhittable ad tank geared Warrior with 3k+ block value to not ever be touched when tanking the ads?
    • If in fact this is all possible and Saurfang does not gain Blood Power if the ads aren't able to cause damage to their tank then you could simply have the unhittable tank AOE & stun the ads in place as they spawn
      • Thunderclap -> Shockwave -> Shield Block -> Shield Slam & Spam Cleave as well as Conc Blow and Thunderclap/Shockwave as they come up
    • Again assuming the above info is possible then instead of having ranged kite and single target the ads down you could have all your DPS (including melee) AOE everything down as soon as the ad tank has some aggro.
    Everything hinges upon a few key questions
    • Are all ad attacks completely physical?
    • How hard do the ads hit?
    • Does Saurfang gain blood power if an attack is completely avoided or blocked?

    It would be nice to see another use for the unhittable set again so I thought I would at least bring it up to see what people think.
    Last edited by Squirrelnut; 12-23-2009 at 03:57 PM.

  2. #2
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    Fascinating postulation Squirrel... The only problem I'd see is AoE threat could be a little meh, so probably drop a frost trap anyways, but that's what taunts are for.

    The other question is: is dropping a DPS for a tank a good call in terms of fighting through the soft enrage.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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    Definitely threat could be an issue but if you start out with thunderclap/shockwave you get decent burst aggro and with all ranged/melee aoeing I expect they would be destroyed fairly quickly. Also, being a Prot Warrior you could throw Vigilance on one of the boss tanks to give yourself free taunts with the added bonus of them taking less damage (just make sure the Vigilance target is not the first one on the boss so that tanks get a nice threat lead over DPS)

    With regard to dropping a DPS to tank role I would tend to think it would make no difference or even IMPROVE DPS on the boss since so much time is taken and DPS lost having all ranged kite/burn ads. If your guild is a little lacking in the intelligence department (like mine) they have a tendency to get hit by the ads so this would also reduce the number of Marks going out and make healers lives 100 times easier (potentially to the point that you could switch a healer to a DPS role).

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    Problem is Squirrel they have a 95% reduction to AoE damage, so thunderclap and shockwave are going to give you bugger all threat.
    Roll with the punches.

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    True but at the same time a small advantage to being a Prot Warrior is our stupid 'baked in threat' mechanic (which I generally hate). Unlike most other tank classes much of our threat is based off the ability and not just the amount of damage it does.

    Not to mention have all your hunters/rogues MD etc and send everything your way

    EDIT: It might be a completely lost cause but if threat is the only concern I would think you could find a way to do it. The real limiting factor would be whether Saurfang gets the blood power from them or not.

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    you would need to make up 20% avoidance and thats just not do-able.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squats View Post
    you would need to make up 20% avoidance and thats just not do-able.
    I keep forgetting about that, but you make it up with shield block. Like... you can have 14 seconds of not being hit at all. Spawn -> shockwave -> shield block. The question really comes down to if you can hold threat.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by squats View Post
    you would need to make up 20% avoidance and thats just not do-able.
    True, probably still doable for a Pally in a heavy BR set.
    Roll with the punches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irat View Post
    True, probably still doable for a Pally in a heavy BR set.
    A pally defiantly wouldnt be able to do it because they only gain 30% block from holy shield. if we do what agg suggests you would need to kill the mobs while the (warrior) tank has shield block up. thats an idea. now we need to know if he gains blood power through avoided attacks.

    pretty easy to do just pop shield block and look. maybe we can try next week.

    EDIT: on this note. we dont know how he will work on heroic yet, but, at the moment having ranged burn down the targets as-is isnt an issue already as long as you have 2-3 ranged that are focusing them.

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    I suppose it might come down to the amount of time it takes for the ads to die. Shockwave / Shield Block / Trinket

    Also trinkets could potentially provide some help for the lost 20% for a certain amount of time? Heart of Iron is around 11%, Royal Seal of King Lane is around 7.75%, Monarch Crab, etc

    EDIT: All else fails if ads aren't dead at the end of Shockwave (4 seconds) / Shield Block (10 seconds) you could intervene to one of the ranged and kite for the last few seconds as they die. The whole 20% thing really did ruin my initial hope for the idea tho lol
    Last edited by Squirrelnut; 12-23-2009 at 04:10 PM.

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    We can assume that blocked hits dont generate blood power already because we already know that if a disc priest puts shields on the raid these abilities no longer generate blood power.

    Boiling Blood - Spell - World of Warcraft
    Blood Nova - Spell - World of Warcraft
    Blood Nova - Spell - World of Warcraft

    well.. you get it. as long as the shield is able to shield all of the damage from the target, he doesnt gain blood power. so we can assume that it works the same for blood beasts as long as the tank has enough block value to shield the hit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelnut View Post
    Not to mention have all your hunters/rogues MD etc and send everything your way
    We have too many people with alts, we have 3 main rogues and 4 offspec rogues. We've been splitting our ICC25 man clears, and so in 1 raid we had 1 main and 3 alt rogues. When all 3 of them and a hunter tricks'd/MD'd me, I had over 20k TPS, It was almost stupid.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelnut View Post
    Any idea how much the beasts hit for?
    i will look at last nights parse.. im sure somone got melee'd by it

    the average over 19 hits was about 4k

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    Looks like our guild was similar, 18 hits with an average damage of 4666.1

    EDIT:
    Compared with Anub'arak ads from a previous log, average damage from them was 8169.6 so if my block value prevents them touching me the blood beasts should be no problem. It is just a matter of killing them before shield block wears off since the stupid 20% dodge reduction kills our avoidance.

    EDIT2: How much health does each ad have? If we think our block value prevents us being hit and MD/tricks gives us aggro then it is really just whether they die in about 14 seconds considering Shockwave/Shieldblock and perhaps cheat and throw in a warlock stun or two. Also Conc Blow and imp revenge helps stun any stragglers for some additional time.
    Last edited by Squirrelnut; 12-23-2009 at 04:45 PM.

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    it's it like 200k in 25 man?
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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    So if we guesstimate 5x blood beasts with 200k each that is about 1mil hp. If you look at maybe 16 DPSers in a 25m raid that is about 62,500 damage needing to be done by each person. If you are trying to get all the beasts down in 14 seconds that is about 4.5k DPS per person?

    Doesn't sound unreasonable; considering the time it takes to target, attack, reaction time, etc probably closer to 5.5k DPS required per person. Definitely doable in ToC / ICC gear I would think. That doesn't count AOE but we do know that they have "Resistant Skin" (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=72723) which reduces AOE damage by 95% and damage from diseases by 70% so I prefer to not rely on any AOE damage.

    EDIT: The only info I see on wowhead about them (http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=38508) says their health is 90,997-100,096... do we know if they are really 200k in 25m?
    Last edited by Squirrelnut; 12-23-2009 at 05:07 PM.

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    It sounds doable, but is it optimal. And it really hinges on if blocked attacks add a BP.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  19. #19
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    Yep... but considering the alternative is having a bunch of hunters/boomchickens/etc running around bumping into people and getting hit 15-20 times per attempt (for my guild at least, sigh) I think it might be a viable option as long as blocked attacks don't give him BP.

  20. #20
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    i guess its usefulness would be different from guild to guild. Me and agg dont have the same issue you do. maybe you can try it out next week and see if it works for you.

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