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Thread: Everything tanks need to know about caps.

  1. #21
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    There is no established cap for Block Value (other than how it is applied to Shield Slam/SoR).

    If you want to open it up to testing, I recommend repeating what you're describing, rigorously, and screen shot the changes. If there is such a cap we can figure it out, or otherwise explain what you're seeing.
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  2. #22
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    I am glad I found this post, but I still have a question. Specifically, regarding hit. I find my paladin's hit rating sucks--he is running around 4% hit, and that is using a couple of pieces or armor, such as the 232 Onyxia helm and the conquest badge tanking gloves, that I would like to upgrade--except I lose quit a bit of hit. I don't seem to have much trouble holding threat, but is it really a good idea to be sitting at 2-3% hit rating, which is where I would be if I upgraded those items?

    And, if hit is important, why can't I find it on paladin tanking gear?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murrog View Post
    I am glad I found this post, but I still have a question. Specifically, regarding hit. I find my paladin's hit rating sucks--he is running around 4% hit, and that is using a couple of pieces or armor, such as the 232 Onyxia helm and the conquest badge tanking gloves, that I would like to upgrade--except I lose quit a bit of hit. I don't seem to have much trouble holding threat, but is it really a good idea to be sitting at 2-3% hit rating, which is where I would be if I upgraded those items?

    And, if hit is important, why can't I find it on paladin tanking gear?
    If you are not running into aggro problems, then you can safely take the upgrades, but I'd hang on to those high-hit items for fights where you can't afford your taunts to miss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    There is no established cap for Block Value (other than how it is applied to Shield Slam/SoR).

    If you want to open it up to testing, I recommend repeating what you're describing, rigorously, and screen shot the changes. If there is such a cap we can figure it out, or otherwise explain what you're seeing.
    upon attempting to screenshot it. it does goes above 5600. so i was obviously quite mistaken.

    that said something seems a little off, i assume its how things are multiplied together



    From left to right; normal BV (2921), with Autoblocker up(3191), with autoblocker and talisman up(3785), with autoblocker and talisman and shield block up(6589).


    so the autoblocker increases gross BV by 270
    the Talisman by 594
    and the shield block is giving an additional 2804



    shield block alone seems to only be adding an extra 2164. at first i assumed that this meant that the increase from shield block was applied before the increases in BV from shield mastery, but that doesn't add up either....

    i'm very confused now.

  5. #25
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    Here's a working explanation.

    Flat value are taken, then percentile modifiers are added together and then applied.
    It explains why both the trinkets are giving 135% of their listed value, 2921/2164=1.35, 3785/2804=1.35.
    The 135% number of course comes from Eternal Earthsiege Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft and Shield Mastery - Spell - World of Warcraft.

    So, we now know a bit more about the mechanics of shield block (it's an additional 100% block value modifier, not a true doubling), and the way that percentile shield block modifiers are handled (added, not multiplied.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  6. #26
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    ah totally forgot i'd bought that meta for the block set, totally forgot it existed

  7. #27
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    Just to point something out about the armor cap scenario. It is quite possible (within a month or so) for a frost dk who glyphed UBA to armor cap in frost badge gear with a few misc. armor pieces from togc/icc normal mode content.

    While it is true, avoiding the glyph, or just avoiding some of the more generous armor gear can side-step this issue, it's worth mentioning as there are more than enough frost-dk fans out there who might blunder into this in the coming months.

  8. #28
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    BV mechanics and scaling are always fishy, just think of it as multipliers multiplying themselves

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  9. #29
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    Regarding the spell hit cap for ensuring taunts:

    I put this together for my guild and thought it might be useful info to post somewhere. I apologize if it has been duplicated elsewhere.

    Here is how much hit rating you need to ensure a taunt, given various situations:

    ("Draenei" means "Draenei in party" and "Shadow Priest" can, of course be replaced with "Fairy Fire")

    (Oh. And "Glyph" is the warrior version. I have no idea what other classes have)

    446 No buffs
    420 Draenei
    406 Hit Food
    380 Draenei, Hit Food
    368 Shadow Priest
    341 Shadow Priest, Draenei
    328 Shadow Priest, Hit Food
    301 Shadow Priest, Draenei, Hit Food
    237 Glyph
    210 Glyph, Draenei
    197 Glyph, Hit Food
    170 Glyph, Draenei, Hit Food
    158 Glyph, Shadow Priest
    132 Glyph, Shadow Priest, Draenei
    118 Glyph, Shadow Priest, Hit Food
    92 Glyph, Shadow Priest, Draenei, Hit Food

    Hopefully this helps you set up your gear, groups, food and glyphs to make sure your OT doesn't get annihilated.

    Edit: Fixed a slight mix-up
    Last edited by SaintVigeous; 01-04-2010 at 03:58 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintVigeous View Post
    Regarding the spell hit cap for ensuring taunts:

    I put this together for my guild and thought it might be useful info to post somewhere. I apologize if it has been duplicated elsewhere.

    Here is how much hit rating you need to ensure a taunt, given various situations:

    ("Draenei" means "Draenei in party" and "Shadow Priest" can, of course be replaced with "Fairy Fire")

    (Oh. And "Glyph" is the warrior version. I have no idea what other classes have)

    446 No buffs
    406 Hit Food
    420 Draenei
    380 Draenei, Hit Food
    368 Shadow Priest
    341 Shadow Priest, Draenei
    328 Shadow Priest, Hit Food
    301 Shadow Priest, Draenei, Hit Food
    237 Glyph
    210 Glyph, Hit Food
    197 Glyph, Draenei
    170 Glyph, Draenei, Hit Food
    158 Glyph, Shadow Priest
    132 Glyph, Shadow Priest, Draenei
    118 Glyph, Shadow Priest, Hit Food
    92 Glyph, Shadow Priest, Draenei, Hit Food

    Hopefully this helps you set up your gear, groups, food and glyphs to make sure your OT doesn't get annihilated.
    If jere doesn't include this in his post, I may copy/pasta it into my guide (obviously giving you credit) if that's okay with you.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  11. #31
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    Absolutely. Go right ahead. I'm uh... mostly certain those are right

    Edit: Whoops! Nope. Let me fix it up.

    Edit: There we are.
    Last edited by SaintVigeous; 01-04-2010 at 03:58 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintVigeous View Post
    Regarding the spell hit cap for ensuring taunts:

    I put this together for my guild and thought it might be useful info to post somewhere. I apologize if it has been duplicated elsewhere.

    Here is how much hit rating you need to ensure a taunt, given various situations:

    ("Draenei" means "Draenei in party" and "Shadow Priest" can, of course be replaced with "Fairy Fire")

    (Oh. And "Glyph" is the warrior version. I have no idea what other classes have)

    446 No buffs
    420 Draenei
    406 Hit Food
    380 Draenei, Hit Food
    368 Shadow Priest
    341 Shadow Priest, Draenei
    328 Shadow Priest, Hit Food
    301 Shadow Priest, Draenei, Hit Food
    237 Glyph
    210 Glyph, Draenei
    197 Glyph, Hit Food
    170 Glyph, Draenei, Hit Food
    158 Glyph, Shadow Priest
    132 Glyph, Shadow Priest, Draenei
    118 Glyph, Shadow Priest, Hit Food
    92 Glyph, Shadow Priest, Draenei, Hit Food

    Hopefully this helps you set up your gear, groups, food and glyphs to make sure your OT doesn't get annihilated.

    Edit: Fixed a slight mix-up
    While lists like this are helpfull, I decided (after quite a bit of deliberation) to use percentages instead of listing ratings.

    The main reason is that there are so damn many effects that can modify these percentages, and making a list like this complete would make the list excessively lengthy, since there are a lot of potentially modifying factors ( Let's start with Virulence - Spell - World of Warcraft.) I think giving people the percentages and telling them to add things up themelves makes these people smarter in the end - they know why they need a certain amount of hit rating, they don't repeat something they saw somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  13. #33
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    hit food is 40 hit? what % is that? If I have that I can work backwards and incorporate percentages in when I post. I will explain why of course, I already have a bit written on the subject in my guide.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  14. #34
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  15. #35
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    1.12% melee, 1.52% spell hit

    Another reason it gets a little tricky listing hit ratings required. The list above works because it is for a specific ability. Not a bad idea, though to cover your bases in a guide you may want to make the 2-3 lists required and list which spells/moves it applies to, and make sure to note what kind of target these values are required for.

    That is why I prefer to just list the caps and the exchanges, along with the % moves from the various talents, glyphs, and buffs. Like Compression Algorithms, give people the tools to find their location within the system, rather than just drawing the whole system in all its permutations.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    1.12% melee, 1.52% spell hit

    Another reason it gets a little tricky listing hit ratings required. The list above works because it is for a specific ability. Not a bad idea, though to cover your bases in a guide you may want to make the 2-3 lists required and list which spells/moves it applies to, and make sure to note what kind of target these values are required for.

    That is why I prefer to just list the caps and the exchanges, along with the % moves from the various talents, glyphs, and buffs. Like Compression Algorithms, give people the tools to find their location within the system, rather than just drawing the whole system in all its permutations.

    Oh... I was going to talk about it JUST in terms of taunt hit. My guide recommends you pretty much ignore hit except for what you can get on gear since it's not especially needed for threat (again, gear/gem for survivability, not hit). I mean I'm currently rolling with 26 expertise and 66 hit and have no threat problems. Sure my threat has seen better days, but if I'm 100k TPS ahead of the highest TPS of a DPS, then what does it matter if I'm doing 9k or 7k? The only reason you would want hit is to ensure that taunts lands. I just wanted a table to show the breakdown of what you would need to ensure your taunt hits every time given various situations.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    If jere doesn't include this in his post, I may copy/pasta it into my guide (obviously giving you credit) if that's okay with you.
    I would say go ahead and put it in yours then. I am kinda of the same mind as Martie on this one, and my taunt guide really isn't intended to cover how to gear for it, so I probably won't be adding it anytime soon (I could change my mind, but for now, I won't be).

  18. #38
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    Ya, and I agree to an extent, but I'm wanting to talk just specifically about warrior taunt.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Ya, and I agree to an extent, but I'm wanting to talk just specifically about warrior taunt.
    Which I have no objection to. This thread is for all tanks, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  20. #40
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    Very happy this was supremely informative

    Thanks a lot this was very elaborate I'm very thankful you took the time to post that it's going to help me and many other tanks out there no doubt, keep up the good work!

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