Alright so I have the build of 15/3/53 and my build is right Here
The reason why I decided to put points in there is I thought if useful in raiding and in pvp / pve. I've seen in raids that some spells do indeed miss me, and I've been able to allow party / raid members to take no damage from some spells when do spell reflection.
Also I have points in gag order for fights such as The Iron Council, and to pull adds close to me for aggro without having to move by using heroic throw.
I just want your guys' input on this to make sure this is a decent build.
The fact that you will get here is that: Imp. Spell reflection is too situational to be involved in an over encompassing tanking build.
If that's what you're playstyle is, and you like it, have fun with it. It's your 15 bucks a month after all isn't it?
You should always have points in gag order for the increased shield slam damage. Imp spell reflect is too situational imo. A lot of times the spells either won't kill you, or the points are better spent elsewhere. Most fights if damage is to hit ranged, it's AoE and imp spell reflect cannot help them, though I can see it useful in heroics (and PvP).
There may be some fights where the extra 4% chance to not be hit ends up being good, such as Sindragosa, but those fights also might require more cooldowns, and therefore imp disciplines may be better.
So in recap, imp spell reflect is good situationally, but is a waste of talent points in most situations.
[Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
Argh!!! you beat me this time Wars!!!
Edit: To answer the question you're wondering but haven't asked, yes we do sit around pressing F5 and staring at the shoutbox for whenever someone posts something.
[Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
Lol, well alright. Also with glyphs, I use Sunder +Devastate+block. I see the Sunder + Devastate being good for quick aggro + a little extra aoe aggro. The block is lovely as well. I may change to Improved Disciplines though because that does sound legitimate.
I've run imp disciplines since 3.2 when we got new glyphs(last stand and shield wall), and I don't think I could play my warrior without them!
The only problem I see there, is last stand is more of a "oh shit" button, and you really shouldn't use it that often. And with Shield Wall, I don't like the fact it wastes the 20% damage reduction. Yeah you can use it more, but you probably shouldn't have to.Originally Posted by Wars
some fights you have to, and even though you "shouldn't have to use last stand" that much, sometimes you do, and it is a very good oh shit button, so there's no reason to not have it on a shorter cooldown.
Glyph of sunder is also very bad, unless they ninja changed it on me, the extra sunder it applies gives you only the innate sunder threat, which is like 240 something threat if I recall correctly, cleave is a MUCH better AoE glyph. I personally carry around stacks of glyphs and switch them out as needed. Sunder is not one of them.
[Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
Oh shit buttons make or break a tank. You should never ever use that argument again. Ever, you're not looking at your perspective of a tank effectively enough as a role-player in a raid environment.
You will never win that argument, and you're lying to yourself if you think that it is true.
So having a glyph that makes last stand a 2 min CD where you'd only need to use it if you dip fairly low, or a healer dies which hopefully shouldn't happen, over a glyph that can help you hold aggro to protect raid members.
Sounds like an effective argument to me. Also, is it really worth risking a 60% damage reduction, and having it 40%? I can see that it will make it so you'll take less damage, but it may take your healers by surprise when it goes away.
Like I said, you're not going to win this argument. Believe me when I say that they're worth it, thanks for coming to tankspot.com and hope you have fun with your 15 bucks a month.
But glyph of sunder is terrible, it doesn't at all, you can easily put in last stand there. Secondly, YES ABSOLUTELY it is better. As a tank, the number one cause of death is running out of hit points, having more cooldowns faster increases your survivability, and there are several fights where I've used Last Stand almost on cooldown, and trust me it's not because I'm in terrible guild with bad healers or something, quite the opposite in fact.
TBH when you need a cooldown 40% vs. 60% while yes a difference, will probably not mean the difference between you living or dying, 40% is generally enough, I've never died to something I wouldn't have died to anyways with the 40% shield wall. There are some fight mechanics that require you have a 2 minute cooldown, or at the very least it is very preferred (Algalon, NRB, Mimiron, General, just to name a few). However, there are some fights where you just won't use it that much, or won't even have a chance, like Steelbreaker or Thorim.Sounds like an effective argument to me. Also, is it really worth risking a 60% damage reduction, and having it 40%? I can see that it will make it so you'll take less damage, but it may take your healers by surprise when it goes away.
If you die and haven't done everything you possibly could as a tank to survive, then it is just as much your fault as your healers, imo.
[Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
Wow, I was just stating a question buddy, not trying to argue with you XD All I'm asking is is it really worth replacing? I can see the constant damage reduction from the shield wall being really helpful, but what about last stand? If you're taking 40% less damage every 2 mins, you don't really need it do you? I'd like someone else to have their input on this as well.
You did have a pretty sarcastic and condesending tone.
[Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
There ya go.
Alright, I got you guys on the part where it is indeed the tanks place to survive, yes. But wouldn't a glyph of cleave, or vigilance be better then last stand for aoe threat? I mean if you don't die that's great, but it's also your job to keep threat up on various targets too.
Also with Last Stand, if you lose 30% of your health every 20 seconds and are dying anyways, that's really bad IMO. Takes your healers by surprise, for they probably think you're health is fine.
In a raid environment you will find very little use of Improved Spell Reflect on bosses. In most cases the spells bosses do will completely ignore Spell Reflect (KT comes to mind). You will find it rare to use as most spells should be interrupted if they're that big a deal to reflect.
In a raid-trash and 5-man heroic environment it will have its uses and saving graces, (being able to save the melee from a shadow volley just make healers smile, if they showed emotion). But otherwise, what all other posters said in this post.
More on topic where this conversation is going, in a progressing raid environment, cooldown usage will make and break a tank. Its all about trying to make the healer's job easier as holding threat should be by a certain playtime innate to all tanks. I also glyph/spec for shorter cooldowns on my oh shit button, while yes in a perfect raid you should NEVER have to use a cooldown, but thats putting alot of work on your healers and your DPS. Being able to use a cooldown when you need it without having to worry about, "I won't have it for the rest of the fight" is a big thing. Remember, you'd blow Bloodlust twice if you could in a fight, so why not last stand/shield wall?
Alright, I am seeing how this could be useful, especially since aggro shouldn't be a problem when tanking a boss. Thanks guys for your input, I highly appreciate and would like to ask where I could possibly find some sort of calculation of the last stand and shield wall?
You're incredibly worried about aggro issues in an expansion/patch where aggro is essentially a non-issue in raids. In current content, if a dps pulls aggro, you're either not executing your rotation properly or they're not playing properly.
Unless, of course, they're an arms warrior. But then it's their fault for playing arms
I understand that, another thing though. What about glyph of devastate? I enjoy this one because it takes less rage to get the stacks up, and helps out a lot IMO. Glyph of blocking, devastate, and shield wall. Is that ideal?
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