Agg's Prot War Tanking Guide

[Aggathon]

God f***ing damnit... I knew I should have waited.

[veneretio]

I think that the dropping of revenge all together in 3.3.2 makes the spec a lot more fluid now. No matter how you slice it you are going to have 2 points floating. The only way to drop imp disciplines is if you put those 2 points into puncture and/or shield spec too, which I think is superfluous.

If you don't have Glyph of Shield Wall (aka a threat spec) then Shield Spec is definitely worth it over Improved Disciplines. 2 more points in Shield Spec offers some extra rage which is never a bad thing and additional chance to block which is also never a bad thing whereas Improved Disciples without Glyph of Shield Wall accomplishes almost nothing. (You're still using Shield Wall 1 time/fight and in rare cases twice) Sure, Shield Spec isn't the most exciting talent, but there's no reason to just ignore a survival increase even if it's a threat spec.

You can also put points in Improved Spell Reflect for the spell miss chance or in Improved Bloodrage. Neither are exciting talents, but both are better than "almost nothing".

[mistersix]

God f***ing damnit... I knew I should have waited.

Sorry, Agg.

[Aggathon]

If you don't have Glyph of Shield Wall (aka a threat spec) then Shield Spec is definitely worth it over Improved Disciplines. 2 more points in Shield Spec offers some extra rage which is never a bad thing and additional chance to block which is also never a bad thing whereas Improved Disciples without Glyph of Shield Wall accomplishes almost nothing. (You're still using Shield Wall 1 time/fight and in rare cases twice) Sure, Shield Spec isn't the most exciting talent, but there's no reason to just ignore a survival increase even if it's a threat spec.

You can also put points in Improved Spell Reflect for the spell miss chance or in Improved Bloodrage. Neither are exciting talents, but both are better than "almost nothing".

I talked about that in the "Revised" edition of that that I unrevised it when they took the devastate changes out of the patch notes, and now I need to go through and re-write it because they put the changes back in. uugghhhh...

[Kojiyama]

Even if the buff to Devastate seems a bit semi-buggy atm, it's fair enough to assume it will be solidified based on GC's comment. The one thing to keep in mind is that he did mention if Revenge was dropped from people rotations completely (wasn't it more or less already?) Revenge would get a buff as well--so it may make in comeback in the near future as there is honestly no reason to use it now unless you are seriously, seriously rage-starved.

[Aggathon]

Even if the buff to Devastate seems a bit semi-buggy atm, it's fair enough to assume it will be solidified based on GC's comment. The one thing to keep in mind is that he did mention if Revenge was dropped from people rotations completely (wasn't it more or less already?) Revenge would get a buff as well--so it may make in comeback in the near future as there is honestly no reason to use it now unless you are seriously, seriously rage-starved.

I did the spec last night and dropped revenge and used puncture. When I glyphed devastate I was doing 11-13k TPS, without glyph of devastate I was doing 8-10k TPS. Revenge really isn't needed post 3.3.2 (as was proved by the math in the other thread). This is running with 23 expertise and 121 hit.

[Kazeyonoma]

strange, in all of my logs last night, revenge consistently averaged more damage than devastate. I'm still spec'd 2/2 imp revenge, but likewise i have glyphed devastate. Now i'm sure TPS wise devastate was probably putting out more, but i found for a pure dps increase, using revenge was in fact better.

[Kojiyama]

Devastate has a higher crit rate and thus a slightly higher contribution from Deep Wounds, which makes up a bit of the difference. At the end of the day, they should have very similar damage per execute, with Revenge being much lower in threat due to Devastate's AP-based threat component.

[Kazeyonoma]

Ah, gotcha, I'm not deep wounds spec'd so that'd probably explain why devastate wasn't hitting as hard for me either.

[Nebidimka]

G) Glove Enchant:
Options include: 18 stam, 2%threat+10 parry rating, or 240 Armor. I guess if you’re having severe threat issues use the threat enchant, otherwise go with 18 stam or 240 armor. 240 armor for almost any level/combination of armor/hps ends up being more EHP than 18 stam, however the calculations are usually pretty close and if you are going to be doing a fight where there is any significant amount of magic damage, then 18 stam is the winner, but for the most part in current content 240 armor is the winner. However, if you are an engineer, then 885 armor to gloves is the best hands down. The 645 armor difference at my current gear levels as of typing this is equivalent to about 62 stam in terms of EHP.

I cant find that 18 stam enchant. Does it even exist? Same with armor.

[Kojiyama]

They are leatherworking patches.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38376
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34207

[Aggathon]

Okay, I finally got around to finishing the update... again... if I missed something let me know. This will probably be my final update to the guide since I am pretty much quitting WoW, but hopefully these will be the final warrior changes until cataclysm comes out, and that will require a whole new guide anyways.

Thanks to all the people who have helped make this guide a possibility, and thanks for all the supporters and positive feedback, I really hope this guide helps you and your guilds progress at a faster pace.

[Aggathon]

@ the Admins: should this be moved to the guides forum?

[Reev]

Okay, I finally got around to finishing the update... again... if I missed something let me know. This will probably be my final update to the guide since I am pretty much quitting WoW, but hopefully these will be the final warrior changes until cataclysm comes out, and that will require a whole new guide anyways.

Thanks to all the people who have helped make this guide a possibility, and thanks for all the supporters and positive feedback, I really hope this guide helps you and your guilds progress at a faster pace.

Something happen, Agg, or is it just time? Answer in a PM if you want.

[Kazeyonoma]

Awww, quitting on us Agg? ;( why!

As for moving it to the Guide section... hrm....

[squats]

Something happen, Agg, or is it just time? Answer in a PM if you want.

its okay we got someone better. HA!

JK.

[Aggathon]

As for quitting... it's time. I need to focus on real life at the moment, I need to get out and exercise more, and focus more on studying, and just having a good time in general. This is going to be the last semester of college I have with my real good engineering friends. Some may stick around, and my roommate is trying to get a job in the area so he can still live in Lawrence and might goto grad school here, but for the most part I just need to get out and do things rather than telling my friends I have to go play a video game instead of hanging out with them. That and I had a co-op last semester and didn't have any tests or homework and got really spoiled, so getting back into that routine has been kinda hard =P.

[mistersix]

Enjoy the real world, Agg.

[Kers]

Cool, I learned something from this guide. Awesome thread.

[Tanthalas]

I agree to pretty much everything here except for the hit stat. TRUE expertise is definitely our priority, but once that is capped, missing with taunt means bad things, you can argue that you can throw vigilance on the MT or OT and have taunt refreshed, but when someone dies in the second or two because your vigilance target hasn't been hit yet, it defeats the point. Missing with abilities means 0 rage and 0 threat and a wasted global, meaning bad things. I would never gem for it but I feel it's good to keep it around 3-5% through personal gear, 2% and below seems a poor choice to me. Imagine AoE tanking where your thunderclaps and shockwaves miss half the mobs, better ask for those tricks and md's or have a reliable OT . And single target wise you better have vigilance in your spec, because imagine having a guild that has dps well over 10-11k+, it would be pretty stressful if you're missing continuously in your rotation meaning wasted globals, then imagine you have a few rogues that want to maximize dps, so they are tricksing other people for the dmg increase, like good rogues should be able to do and get away with, without having those players catch up to the MT's threat. But I guess at the end of the day, it can just be situational or what the player is used to when tanking. And Like I said before, this guide was very helpful and informative, well thought out, I just think hit needs to be more appreciated if you're wanting to tank effectively.