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Thread: Dual-Wield or 2-Handed: that is the question?

  1. #1
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    Dual-Wield or 2-Handed: that is the question?

    This is me, as I have been off late - after 3.3 released, of course: character planner . valquirie . chardev seven

    However, right after 3.3 released, but before today, I was a bit different: I was Blood, and used a 2-handed weapon. My major glyphs were different, too (included in spec). The rest of my gear was the same.

    My HP has decreased by ~2.4k, unbuffed, but that isn't a lot! What worries me is the perceived - by me - loss in threat [generation] and survivability. I hear that I should not attempt the dangerous stunt of dual-wielding without 30 Expertise. Irrespective of whether Expertise from talents shows up on the character page, I have less that 30 - the page shows 24, and I know my current spec gives me 5 Expertise.

    What is dual-wielding tanking like in 3.3?
    Should I attempt it, even with 30 Expertise?
    Should I go back to my old Blood+2h tanking?
    Should I spec into something else, but use a 2-handed weapon?

    Yay! Sparklies and Pretty Butterflies!
    */Gives everyone Candiz, and /Waves with Blankie*
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  2. #2
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    I find I pull more threat from DW Frost- at least in heroics so far with 25 expertise- than as blood, though Blood will stay my main spec for raids.

  3. #3
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    DW Frost is not going to put out as much threat as 2h Blood, but it is certainly capable of enough threat (if you're using slow DPS weapons that is - it is possible to tank with fast "tank" weapons, but I certainly would not recommend it unless you're just doing heroics). If your rotation is correct (your glyphs are obviously incorrect on the character sheet - I assume you put the wrong ones by mistake, as you strike me as too intelligent to use Glyph of the Ghoul as frost - but are you using the Howling Blast glyph? It's nice for trash, but I'd recommend dual-disease for bosses to help with Obliterate and Blood Strike damage) and you're not undergeared, you will generate plenty of single-target threat, and obviously fantastic AoE threat.

    As far as survivability goes, Blood has 3% stam and its several self-heals, Frost has 3% avoidance on melee attacks and a 2% reduction to all damage taken. All in all, both are about even.

    Parryhaste is not an issue on most bosses, as it was disabled on all bosses who would gib you with it. High expertise is very nice, but not an absolute necessity.

    Should you attempt it? Yes. Should you spec back to Blood? Try out DW frost, if you don't like it, go back. There's only one way to determine which spec you prefer to tank with, and that's to try it out for yourself. You have nice gear, including weapons, your spec is OK (personally I would replace Morbidity as D&D is pretty weak for frost, use it when you open up an AoE fight and after that Howling Blast does much of the work for you), I see nothing preventing you from being a very good DW tank.

  4. #4
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    I would agree with the idea of try it out and go with what feels best to you. I've been Blood 2 hander, Frost 2 hander, and Frost DW since the patch myself. ^^ I'm spec'ed into Unholy 2 hander for this weekend to give it a good try out.

  5. #5
    Since 80 I've tanked as 2H Frost and 2H Blood. When 3.3 came out, I put Rune of Nerubian Carapace on my 2x Nighttime and DW tanked some.

    For 5mans, I love it. The RP regen from SoB feels faster, I assume since the weapons are faster hence the autoattacks are faster. It feels so good in fact that it won't surprise me to see SoB nerfed for DW at some point.

    However, I went into ICC 10 as Frost DW and got wtfpwned by Marrowgar. The Recount Death log showed that he hit me 3 times in 3.5s for 12k, 13k, 12k - all three regular melee, not Saber Lash.

    I was under the impression that all bosses have a 2s swing timer, which implies those 3 hits should have come over a period of 4s (starting the instant the first hit landed), rather than 3.5, such suggests to me that I parry-hasted him, even with 34 expertise on both hands. So I don't think I'm going to try DW tanking him again.

    Recently I picked up Mourning Malice, and respec'd back to 2H Blood tank and 2H Frost tank, but haven't gotten back to Marrowgar yet to compare 2H tanking on him.

    So that's my experience so far w/ DW vs 2H in 3.3, fwiw.

  6. #6
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    hey Kurtosis,

    did you go to Marrogar again, this time with 2h Frost?

    I'm curious, as I'm currently on doubt between 2h or DW Frost. My biggest concern is threat generation, but I don't want to get 1-shotted.

  7. #7
    I tank at the moment with a Blood Tank - using a 2H Orca-Hunter's Harpoon (as I haven't done that many raids to be honest to get anything better).. and find that threat generation is NEVER a problem with me. I group alot with two Arms Warriors in fantastic-gear and they're always saying "Want me to lay off the Bladestorm?" as it's an infamous aggro-steal, but I never have problems with them doing it.

    I have DW Frost in the past - and it may be because I don't like the specification for tanking - but I found that Threat Generation was less - and I got killed alot easier. I didn't like it and stayed Blood - Frost is now my DPS Spec! ^^

    Obviously, try it out for yourself, see what works best for you. 2H Blood works best for me, but that's me.

  8. #8
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    i just respec. 2h frost spec as tank and i can handle in heroics no problem. i hope it will be ok in raid to

  9. #9
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    I've done 2H unholy and DW frost tanking and both worked perfectly fine really. DW frost had some nice threat, in both DPS and tanking weapons and I never noticed any sort of parry gibbing or enhanced swing timer. My deaths were always from saberlash or lagging in a cold flame.

  10. #10
    I just recently got my dk up to snuff and have successfully tanked first for in icc10 and 25. I went DW as soon as I had two slow weapons, Black Ice mace and Nighttime.

    I had some minor problems with marrowgar at first only having about 44k raid buffed health, till I found a good rotation of my cools downs. Once I started rolling my cooldowns proactively I havent had an issue yet. I went dual spec for blood 2h tanking as well incase at some point I rly need it but im not experienced in blood and havent found any fight where i feel DW frost is lacking or coming up short in either threat or survivability.

  11. #11
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    I tank blood. I love blood. I have specced DW frost and 2hand frost but just didn't like it. Its really up to you. DKs can tank any way we want. Its all your preference.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

  12. #12
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    The only caveat to dw tanking is making sure you have enough expertise. If you find yourself lacking in expertise, then 2 handed tanking is much more efficient gear-wise.

    That said, dw tanking is exciting with all the procs!
    Stay strong. Stay smart. All heart.

  13. #13
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    Your expertise should be the same with both hands

  14. #14
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    Meh i remember when the DW tank was scoffed at so i havent put much effort in looking back into it, but what i have seen is they can be as effective as 2h DK tanks so if you have the gear then go for it. Personally i have been blood for the longest time and im getting Shadowmourne so im sticking with 2h Blood

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JŠne View Post
    Meh i remember when the DW tank was scoffed at so i havent put much effort in looking back into it, but what i have seen is they can be as effective as 2h DK tanks so if you have the gear then go for it. Personally i have been blood for the longest time and im getting Shadowmourne so im sticking with 2h Blood
    Can't comment on other specs much, but regarding 2H or DW Frost Tanking, both are equally viable, though the 2H build has a lot more flex to get "fun" talents in to it.
    The DW Tank build is very tight and doesn't have much room to do fun stuff without sacrificing stuff.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatank View Post
    hey Kurtosis,

    did you go to Marrogar again, this time with 2h Frost?

    I'm curious, as I'm currently on doubt between 2h or DW Frost. My biggest concern is threat generation, but I don't want to get 1-shotted.
    No, I was travelling for a few weeks and off wow. Then two days after I got back I won Sharpened Obsidian Edge Blade on a lucky pug, respec'd 2H Frost and 2H Blood, and haven't tried DW Frost tanking since.

    Regarding Marrowgar, he got nerfed while I was away, and doesn't hit as hard now, so I'd say try him as both DW Frost and 2H Frost or Blood, and watch your dmg taken and single-target threat meters on both.

    Imho, spec to your gear and/or your raid comp. If your best weapon is 2x 1Hrs, go DW Frost. If it's a 2H, go Blood or 2H Frost. If your raid needs Ebon Plague, go UH (though preferably a dps DK should do that). Etc etc. Having 4 possible tank specs is one of the most unique things about DK tanking, and it behooves us to be competent with all of them, and not get mentally locked into or invested in just one or two.

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