I can't say it's made me mean, but it sure has frustrated me and led me into several sessions of cussing at my computer. Very unladylike to say the least, but it's either that or cuss at them.
I'm a fairly new tank. Decided pally tank was my role just before the randoms came out. I'm very comfortable now with all the random heroics EXCEPT Halls of Reflection and to a somewhat lesser degree Pit of Saron.
But in my daily runs, I've run across dps that wants to pull and complain at ME when I cannot get the aggro off them fast enough. Healers who complain at ME when the dps pulls the aggro. "You're a suck tank, you should get that aggro off me" etc, etc. Then there are what I call "the achievement runners". They are doing their own thing, regardless of what the tank thinks. Oh and let's not forget the tank wannabe's who want to tell me what to do all the way through the dungeon.
I'm a medium runner. I usually go from pack of mobs to the next fairly swiftly. I rarely loot, keep an eye on the healers mana and check with them before a boss. I'm usually polite and ask if everyone is ready before I even start.
But the abuse I take some days just almost doesn't make it worth it. I think it has something to do with the randomness of it all. Folks know that odds are slim you won't ever see them again, so they just do and say whatever.
I'm not ready to give up, but omg, after the abuse I took in HoR last night....it was close.
I guess my point is...be patient. Not everyone has been doing this forever, whether it's the tank, the healer, the dps. Everyone has to start somewhere. If the healer that posted about pulling aggro to make the tank move faster had done that on me in HoR, or even PoS, we would've wiped, because quite simply, I'm still learning it. And of course, it would have been MY fault to the group.
I'm an alt-oholic. I'm ok with that.
While I've been really fortunate with my groups in the randoms, I have had one or two overly nasty players that caused me to just drop group. What I find curious was that in the last four days or so, the number of these kind of "problem" players has seemingly picked up. It used to be an occassional thing; if I did five dungeons maybe one or two would have a "gogogo" type in it. This weekend in particular it seemed to be an endless stream of DPS attacking as they saw fit and players running amok.
Of course, I did get a chuckle out of a priest... totally seriously mind you... tell me to "stop being so slow" on VH. When I asked him if he though I should somehow pull faster, he told me that I wasn't getting the mobs "fast enough." Apparently standing under the portals isn't fast enough. The mage told him to get his (the priest) DPS up.
It hasn't made me mean, at least that's what I think. For me, I've been more like negligent with healers. I just start the instance, and begin to pull, I only look at the healer's mana before a boss, anything else I don't even mind if the healer isn't around. Right until now I only have had a problem with a healer who was complaining about going too fast, but I didn't really pay attention to him. But well maybe it's because with the new dungeon system tanks are in so high demand that for us is trivial if someone else complains or not, because, you know, you can always leave the group, it's not like we are gonna have to wait a lot to fill your spot.
[An00b'arak]: >8< spider power
Actually, after getting used to the role of tank, I think my patience just went up a notch. Still, people even push it after that.
Heroic OK, a pat goes along, and we fight. Spellcaster is casting on the side, so, in my stupidity, I charge instead of los ing the mage. I end up pulling another group. Warlock dies before I held threat on all mobs. Fight went on fairly quick (I love spell reflect). Warlock says "I wonder why the fail tank can't hold threat" with the healer saying "I agree." It was my fault, yes, but I'm not taking bullcrap, especially when he wrote that when I was about to apologize. So, instead, I said "the bigger question is why can't the warlock hold threat." He proceed to link recount and show how I fail at tanking because...oh my god...I was the fourth in the dps chart. I reply "uh, I'm a warrior tank? The lowest dpser of the 4 tanks? I would be mad if I passed one of you." He dropped out.
Fastforwarding, in the insanity guy, I told the healer "I'm so going to enjoy beating you for calling me a fail tank earlier" Everyone, even the healer, laughed.
I think one of the attributes of a good tank/leader is patience. If you are not a patient tank then you are just bringing yourself unecessary grief and likely adding to the drama. I tank and lead a guild and I go by the philosophy of taking things seriously when needed. Running randoms is the time when I just wanna blow stuff up and have fun. If people are being dbags in a 5 man and I cannot initiate the vote kick I just turn up the music, put my head down and do my job. If it's so bad we're wiping, I leave and take a game break for the remainder of the lockout. If people are so stupid that by level 80 they are not able to grasp group dynamics, nothing you can do is going to change them, at least in the short term. Maybe that's why I named my guild what I did....Cant Fix Stupid. And unless you are guilded with the person, chances are you'll never see them again. So what's the point of getting all worked up? Maybe I'm just being a simpleton....I dunno. There are times I get worked up with how utterly stupid some people can be but I just remember the philosophy and keep on chuggin. One other thing I think we sometimes forget is that there could be any number of reasons you are totally oblivious to as to why a person is playing that way at that point in time. In the end there are just too many variables to let yourself get worked up over it.
I registered in this forum just to put my $0.02
Tanking is making me meaner. There is no denying it. I have a lvl 80 mage, shaman, dk, hunter, rogue and working on my Tankadin. As a long time DPSer I understand DPS mechanics which also means I understand threat mechanics. I realize that accidents happen, however there are times that my patience is tested.
Real examples follow:
Druid healer: "I have to drink you fail as a tank"
....seriously how do you respond to that?
Warrior (DPS): "Dude watch your aggro"
Me: "You died because you stood on top of the mine with 20% health"
Warrior: "You should have moved the mobs then!"
Me: "I did this is why I am over here and you are eating dirt over there"
Warrior rage quits
Me: Changing to prot spec
Mage: /cast Pyroblast
Mage insta dies
Hunter: "Can we do a full clear"
Me: "I rather not"
Rest of the group: nah, lets just kill the bosses
I start pulling, hunter misdirects to healer (found this out later) pulls two more groups and feigns death
I tank them all, healer is pimp, DPS does not panic and we kill them all
Hunter: "You SUCK"
Me: "Hey guys"
Warrior (DPS): gogogo
Me: ...alright (start pulling)
I stop healer's mana at 15%
Me: mana break (warrior charges a group of 4, I taunt, hold aggro and use up Lay on Hands to live)
Me: dude...the healer has 10% mana, give him a sec (warrior charges)
Warrior dies horribly
Warrior: "fail tank!"
I can keep going but really what's the purpose? People are dumb. Now it has been suggested that a good leader/tank is patient. There is patience then there is blatant stupidity. To put it blunty if you are a moron I do not want you to get gear. Nope. I rather vote kick you or leave and re-queue within 10 seconds. Being patient for a new player I will gladly do, I have explained countless fights to the point that my roommate that at times runs with me makes fun of me. I will never be mean to a newbie, but to a moron that thinks that knows everything...yeah that guy can die (in game :P
Yes most definitely, science i started a tank i noticed that some people have done healing before and some have not. When i pull i expect the healer to be on my butt and keep me up nothing more.
One more side note a healer pulling is also extremely annoying and may sometimes result in the tank pulling and becoming immune from all damage and watching you die so just watch out!
Its good to see I'm not alone in anger management classes, lol. I don't think I've become mean just my expectations of others is now higher. My main toon is a Holy Priest and due to the lack of tanks available and raids falling over due to this I rolled a tank. At first I did suck and I was honest about it and took my fair amount of abuse. I stuck with it and now consider myself a compitent tank (Warrior). Lots of thanks to Tank Spot and those who post here.
I hate it when I run a instance and a Pally healer who now wants to collect tanking gear rolls need on what is an upgrade for me. This happened to me in Heroic Halls of Reflection the other day when the Shield dropped. I snapped as I had run this numerous times without the shield dropping. I just sat my ass down and said "Ok go ahead and tank". Also I hate DK's who insist on rushing in and dropping Death and Decay. It is funny though to watch them run by screaming for me to pull the adds or boss off them.
I also now expect tanks to run Heroics fast and efficiently when I heal. I find myself marking the adds up and if the tank is slow I'll pull and fade. Maybe I've become a wee bit impatient but I think I've taken enough abuse to be impatient.
As above, i had the same issue where a holy pally needed on the shield from HOR, he was holy/ret, i asked why he was needing on tank shield when he is not a tank, he basically said he needs it. I asked him to hand it over to either me or the other ret pally who was prot offspec, he refused and we kicked him.
After wards I told him in party chat that I would not tank any mob he aggroed like that no matter how fast he wanted to go. He was pissed but shut up and behaved the rest of the run. I pull swiftly. I didn't need him getting us wiped.
Never tolerate this. Just remember that all that DPS probably waited 10 plus minutes. So they can do it your way or you can leave and get right back in a new group (once the debuff wears off of course)
Glad to see new tanks with the right attitudes! Best of luck and enjoy your game time.
Last edited by Arikak; 01-26-2010 at 10:50 PM.
"A man can learn twice as much from milking a cat as two men can from a very tall fourth man.
- Mark "Alec Baldwin" Twain
I'm nevermean, because the most I will type into chat is "lol" in response to any idiot involved in my PUG, must of the time I just chuckle to myself and get on with it without saying a word.
I've got neither the time nor the inclination to correct or argue with stupid, thus I'm never mean.
One of my fav quotes applies to every stupid you meet in PUGs:
"Don't argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
"Yes." - Captain Obvious
Tanking has made me nice to other tanks (that deserve it) and mean to those who don't know how to do their job. Example: Yesterday I got stuck with some of the worst random pugs I've had since 3.3 came out. Pug #1: HoS, someone says, "#&!@!" and leaves. I don't like HoS either, but it's quicker just to run it. We have two paladins, one of them selects tank/damage when we queue up again, the other one, several seconds later, selects only tank. The instance proceeds with them trying to outthreat each other on everything, including pulling extra guys so they can have a chance at more mobs. Tank #1 (way less geared than #2) dies, and startings cussing out everyone, I can see this is going no where fast and I leave group. I would be nice to the tank if he #1: wasn't being a douch and #2: playing like he was part of a group and not trying to outthreat the other tank on everything.
Pug #2: HoL, undergeared tank, but at least as geared as when I first starting tanking HoL. We survived the overcharged boss without too much trouble, so obviously we had the gear for the instance. We get to the slag room, tank does fine, gets all the adds. Retarded lock and ret pally (700 dps ret, btw) stand right on top of the tank and aoe. My ele sham is just cruising along at the top of the stairs, waiting to rez whoever dies. Druid tree, once the other two dps dies, proceeds to say, "Oh great, another tank who doesn't know how to pull this instance." That ticked me off becuase it wasn't the tanks fault at all. I proceed to badmouth the healer for being a douche. Healer leaves, we get another instantly. The new tree says, "Oh great" once he sees we're in the middle of the dungeon. I tell him the tank, while a little undergeared compared to the t10 tanks, is doing fine. We get past the slag room again, pally dies again and releases instantly, lol. We took out the group right there and went up the stairs. Warlock pulls aggro on one of the dude at the top of the stairs. The mob comes and pounds on him. Healer is so geared that one or two of his hots keeps the lock up. Nevertheless, lock proceeds to fear the mob, who runs rampant across this instance pulling another group or two. I was like, "dude, never use fear in an instance." He was like, "What else was I supposed to do when I pull aggro?" I was pretty upset by this time, so I say, "Get omen, pay attention, and quit being a retard." I try not to be too mean, because these people do have feelings and I used to be a noob too.
Non-PUG #1: I was so fed up, I begged guildies to group with me, lol. Guild MT says he's fixing to do his random, couple good dps come too. We get vh, burn heroism at the end and kill the dragon in like 19 seconds. Pug healer finished the dragon fight with 1000 dps, lol. Happy ending.
If it looks like they accidentally pulled the group/mob, then I let it pass the first time. After that, though, (if it's starting to look like it's not an accident) I just let them die and save me and the healer.
Just earlier today I was in a group with some hunter that out geared me and still just decided to unload on crap right after pulling (Without misdirecting most of the time), if he even wait for me to pull. There was also a warlock doing the same thing (Who also out geared me). I didn't let him or anyone else die, but mostly because I was tired and just got up (Don't feel like putting up with pissing them off right now).
Yea, I may have 40k health buffed, but I'm not going to sit there and pull groups and groups of mobs at the same time. For one, I just started about a week or two ago, and I don't know the people in the random group (Specifically the healer) so I am not going to risk getting owned by some fail healer not knowing what he's doing.
The only time I'll tank a random now is if there are at least 2 other guildies grouped with me. :P
Others pulling has actually made me stop tanking. I love tanking but it pisses me off to have dps/heals pulling on purpose. I let them die. Heck I sit down, take out the popcorn and revel in their death. But all the rush rush jerks that don't bother to ask why I'm waiting have made me stop tanking all together unless it is a guild run. Guildies know I'll let them die and don't do it.
I don't mind chain pulling whether I'm healing or tanking, as long as I know it can be handled. If I'm not sure that my healer can handle a chain pull I'm not going to risk it. Guess that is why my tank set is so pathetic these days. First I got sucked into raiding as a healer only then jerks made me stop tanking.
I say, ask yourself if you would get pissed off at the healer pulling when you are tanking. If you would, don't do it anymore. If you wouldn't mind, talk to the tank first at least.
Perfet thread for this rant i'm in need of venting:
What makes a tank mean is tanking along side a prot paladin for months. Don't get me wrong, he's a nice guy and a decent player (certainly not the caliber of player we had previously in our prot warrior, but he is now social QQ), but above all else he is a Type-A Threatadin. He spends hours on end working out how to maximize his TPS/DPS because survival hasn't been an issue for him in quite some time (well, since ulduar really). Without the benefit of tricks (and often even when I get tricks) he can produce more threat on just about anything in ICC instantly than I could hope to muster over a full disease rotation complete with rune-strikes. While we did break him of the habit of pulling bosses back too early on necessary tank swaps a long tim ago, it's still just demoralizing (even when things go right) to run raids each week as second-fiddle just because of my class.
Tanking hasn't made me mean, it's bad players and them getting rewarded off my work that has made me mean lol.
Marking targets, coordinating CC, and *most importantly*, pulling responsibly so that 9 elites didn't rush us and wipe the party, this Is something I have missed since nov 08.
It hasn't made me mean. I've always been mean. I just recently discovered that rolling a tank totally enables my meanness (for raiding especially)
Actually, on the whole, I think tanking has made me nicer. I was a haughty bitch with my mage (why aren't you healing me? why can't you hold aggro?), now, with vivid memories of massive fucking failures of my first few attempts at tanking (exclusively a mage then jumped straight to DK tank lol) not so far behind me. now I'm much more tolerant of tanks mistakes and healers inability to keep everyone up when the tanks screw up.