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Thread: Comprehensive Guide to Death Knight Tanking

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    8 yrds is melee range, incidentally. I have recently used Death Grip at pointblank range as a backup taunt, successfully.
    Satorri, Bosk is referring to Death Grip on CATACLYSM, and I got the feeling you think he's talking about LIVE.

    Just to be clear so there's no misunderstanding, Death Grip has not been changed on LIVE, but has been changed on CATACLYSM to have a minimum range of 8 yards, and it does not work at point blank range. Here's a this nifty video I made so everyone can see them self. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta1lR2tWfI8

  2. #602
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    I can check again next time I get the chance, but I have done the same on the beta.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  3. #603
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    hi, um maybe u mentioned it but is there such thing as hard caped defense.... where after defense is pointless to add on....if there is such thing do u happen to know the figure?
    i tank wid 599 defense rating and was thinkin maybe i shud drop it down to 570 defense rating and get a bit more of health pool which is currently at 40k

    cheers
    btw love ur guide

  4. #604
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    No. There is never a point at which you cease to get value from Defense.

    Also on a related note, I take no small measure of enjoyment from my excessive defense giving my IBF about 65% damage reduction.



    For your personal concerns, it is only a matter of whether or not you are gemming for it beyond what you need (540). I am sitting at around 612, I think without a shred of Def gems or enchants. If you are gemming it or enchanting it though, there may be a more desirable choice depending on your priorities. It holds up rather well at higher levels for still giving you good avoidance, but few people are looking for that.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  5. #605
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    I'm just wondering. What is the highest threat combo to start off with as Blood? (Opener)

    Personally I, ITx2, PS, HSx2, ERW, ITx2, HSx2
    That should net me about 90k (15k x4 from IT + 5k x4 from HS + 10k misc PS/melee/RS) threat easily.

    Best case scenario i would start the fight with 4 deathrunes (after trash) and my Opener will be
    ITx4, HSx2, ERW, ITx2, PSx1, HSx2
    should net me about 120k (15k x6 from IT + 5k x4 from HS + 10k misc PS/melee/RS) threat.

    But was told to use DnD (after somehow a lock pulled aggro during the Rune Blackout after the Opener).
    So what i did was, DnD, IT, PS, HS, ERW, ITx2, HSx2
    That should net me about 105k (40k from DnD + 15k x3 from IT + 5k x3 from HS + 10k misc PS/melee/RS) threat. (O dear, i just learnt something)

    As for Cruiser
    Usually I HSx2, DSx2, HSx6 (or Pestx1, HSx5)
    If im getting caught up, IT for deathrunes instead of HS.

    Are there any better variations out there?

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    I can check again next time I get the chance, but I have done the same on the beta.
    I do remember reading a blue post about DG not having worked at melee ranged in one of the beta releases but that it was a bug and not intended. Can't find the source right now though.

  7. #607
    Ok guys, so Im at the Lich King now on 10 man and my GM is telling me that I need to re-spec to Frost to kill the LK.
    Is this true? We had him to 55% last night and I seem to be doing fine with threat.

    On the same note, he also said I should swap my PvP shoulder enchant for dodge/parry, and also my glove enchant for 2% added threat. I have already went back through my old comments and what Edgewalker said and according to him I have the best available now.
    I know there are different people that have different opinions, but I feel very strongly about my current enchants and unless someone proves me wrong I will not change them, which is what I told the group very nicely during a raid. Im very glad to be at the point now where I can stand up for myself with my gear and enchant choices, though the Frost spec for LK I still do not understand.
    Any DK tank that ask me for help I direct them to this guide, which for me, has been the single best thing I have had for help and information.

    Thanks in advance

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michultradk View Post
    Ok guys, so Im at the Lich King now on 10 man and my GM is telling me that I need to re-spec to Frost to kill the LK.
    Is this true? We had him to 55% last night and I seem to be doing fine with threat.

    On the same note, he also said I should swap my PvP shoulder enchant for dodge/parry, and also my glove enchant for 2% added threat. I have already went back through my old comments and what Edgewalker said and according to him I have the best available now.
    I know there are different people that have different opinions, but I feel very strongly about my current enchants and unless someone proves me wrong I will not change them, which is what I told the group very nicely during a raid. Im very glad to be at the point now where I can stand up for myself with my gear and enchant choices, though the Frost spec for LK I still do not understand.
    Any DK tank that ask me for help I direct them to this guide, which for me, has been the single best thing I have had for help and information.

    Thanks in advance

    To put it bluntly, there isn't a single thing your GM said that makes sense. Stam on your shoulders provides better buffer against Soul Reapers then the Hodir enchant, on gloves go expertise for threat or 18 stamina for survival (your cruising threat should be so far beyond the dps these days that an artificial 2 percent increase is worthless). And as to the spec... if you are going to be tanking LK himself, at all, then you pretty much must be blood. WOTN will let you eat soul reapers, even if you miss cds, if you are sufficiently geared (but don't stress your healers out, use the cds). If you are going to be doing nothing but adds, it really dosen't matter so much. A Frost spec with chill blains is not bad for slowing all three valks on 25m, but it really shouldn't be neccesary.

    I have run this with a number of different set ups and tanking configs. In the most recent kills I have run with a warrior tank. We put him on LK and me on Adds in P1, just because I have done adds so many times that its lulzy. Then we switch on P2 so that he can stun valks without having to drag LK around, then we switch back on P3 so that I am free to army, taunt, DG, etc adds... I do all of this in blood.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michultradk View Post
    Ok guys, so Im at the Lich King now on 10 man and my GM is telling me that I need to re-spec to Frost to kill the LK.
    Is this true?
    No. I've found it just fine and easy as Blood, almost preferable. Can I assume you are tanking adds in phase 1? If so that may be why he thinks so, he may believe that you cannot do sufficient AoE as Blood (which is nonsense in general and doubly so since no one needs to be dpsing the adds...).

    Quote Originally Posted by Michultradk View Post
    On the same note, he also said I should swap my PvP shoulder enchant for dodge/parry, and also my glove enchant for 2% added threat.
    If you aren't having threat problems, you don't need the +threat enchant on your gloves. With the 30% buff and what I assume is a decent set of ICC gear, I really don't think it is worth the opportunity cost (i.e. wasting the resilience) to squeeze out some more health from your shoulders. The latter is more negotiable than the former, which is a pretty cut and dry issue.

    If you are a member of a strict raid team where you have to fall in or sit out, then you wouldn't have much of a choice. Otherwise, I would expect from what you've said that your raid leader is a micro-manager and one who tries to direct people on topics he doesn't fully understand. Trust the community and your experience over what he read on a BiS list. /shudder
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  10. #610
    Thanks guys.
    Sorry I didn't provide my armory link ; http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cn=Michultradk

    Please note that I picked my new shoulders up last night and have not enchanted them yet. I feel that I'm geared well enough to complete ICC, playing talent pending...lol
    The guys I'm running with have really helped me out by taking a player that has minimal playing xp and only one level 80 toon, I wish I would've started sooner but it is what it is. The GM was not demanding, but more trying to help the raid group, which of course I'm all for. But as I explained to him and the others I feel I read and study a decent amount and use several different sources of information so I can be better prepared as a player for group raids.
    Again, any help on better gear choices or changes is always welcomed, I know I need a neck upgrade badly but one hasn't dropped for me yet. At the content I'm playing now I should switch my D&D glyph for one that has been mentioned here, I know Satorri has said that it's pretty good for 5 man heroics but useless for ICC raids. I will look back into that.

    Thanks again guys

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michultradk View Post
    At the content I'm playing now I should switch my D&D glyph for one that has been mentioned here, I know Satorri has said that it's pretty good for 5 man heroics but useless for ICC raids.
    Definitely not useless, but it is like the +threat hand enchant, if you don't need the threat on groups you can get glyphs that will help you on every fight instead of the handful and trash that require you to tank more than one thing.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  12. #612
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    Okay, so I am sitting here wondering if I am doing this whole thing right. I was wondering if you guys would take a look at my toon, and let me kinow if I am enchanted and gemmed properly. I really would appreciate any feedback.

    My armory link is http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...N%C3%AFghtmare

  13. #613
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    Jol, for ICC I would swap some enchants: +30 stamina pvp enchant on shoulders, +225 armor on cloak, +275hp on chest, +240 armor on gloves. But I'm assuming here that you don't have problems with threat and you're doing progression runs, not farming bosses on normal mode.

  14. #614
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    2 things...

    1> Thank you for your time, tons of helpful insights and answers here.

    2 Um...my wife says you owe her a new ink cartridge! lol

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jol View Post
    Okay, so I am sitting here wondering if I am doing this whole thing right. I was wondering if you guys would take a look at my toon, and let me kinow if I am enchanted and gemmed properly. I really would appreciate any feedback.
    My armory link is http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...N%C3%AFghtmare
    The appropriate place for this is here: http://www.tankspot.com/forumdisplay...-I-need-advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Kranoth View Post
    Um...my wife says you owe her a new ink cartridge! lol
    Ha ha ha, perhaps I should include an advisory asking people to think of the trees before printing this out.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    With the 30% buff and what I assume is a decent set of ICC gear, I really don't think it is worth the opportunity cost (i.e. wasting the resilience) to squeeze out some more health from your shoulders. The latter is more negotiable than the former, which is a pretty cut and dry issue.
    That makes no sense. The PvP enchant is better even discounting the buff, when you throw in chill of the throne (Throwing your dodge into DR beyond the percentage you are actually effectively getting), and then the fact that the buff scales the stamina, and that stamina scales your WotN threshold, your Death strikes, this is specifically about a fight with heavy unavoidable magic hits... that seems like a silly recommendation to make. He's already using the PvP enchant anyway, his raid leader is telling him to use the inferior one. "It probably doesn't make a difference one way or the other" is one thing, but flat out inferior advice should be avoided.

  17. #617
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    You are confused in your statements. You dismiss what you don't appear to understand.

    The PvP shoulder enchant is only actually better for you *if* your personal valuing of Stamina is significantly higher than any other value (in this case dodge and defense). If you are maximizing EH, the Gladiator glyph becomes the best in ICC gear. If you are maximizing survival in general, the opportunity cost of that shoulder enchant is not absent.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    You are confused in your statements.
    Now I'm confused as well I thought that PvP shoulder enchant is superior to Hodir's one in case when both are true:
    * Your spec is blood where many abilities relies on your total HP: Death Strike, Vamp Blood, Rune Tap, WotN, Mark of Blood.
    * You're part of progression runs, not farming content.

    Am I missing something or I misunderstood your last post? Cause I'm sure that both above statements are true in case of Michultradk.

  19. #619
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    *If* you value EH first and foremost. I am generally of a mind that health is the best value for Blood DK tanks, yes. I am only disagreeing with the severity of TheYanger's statement saying that it is never advisable to use the Def/Dodge enchant. (I also specifically have used it, even through progression, because I invest in a decent amount of non-health supporting survival values. My healers have felt I'm easier to heal because of it, anecdotal though that may be.)

    And for Mich, with the size of the buff, I fancy the value of the Dodge and Defense (double whammy avoidance and IBF buffing) for ICC raiding at this point, though the Glad enchant is not a bad choice, by any stretch of the imagination, either.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  20. #620
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    You may fancy it, but being the face of the DK community it's sickening to see you advising people poorly about it. Your 'healers' have definitely never noticed you having 0.75% more avoidance or whatever the heck it is after all the DR we have at ICC gear levels. Compared to over 400 extra health? give me a break. EH isn't always the superior stat to consider, but for ICC in almost every case it is, there are some fights where pure stamina can beat it out due to magic damage, either way avoidance isn't a factor to consider on this fight where you're getting trucked and you need the extra health.

    Again, it's one thing to be some baseline DK apologist who will support anyone in their endeavors to be a unique and special snowflake in their tanking, which is what you usually are, and quite another to offer poor advice as gospel. If people want to do silly things like tank as unholy or whatever, at least admit that it's suboptimal, if they ask 'am I doing this wrong?' the kid gloves don't help - you are what a ton of newbie DK tanks look up to and when they ask a question about the game it's better for the game and for the players if you can at least give the right answers. CAN you tank as unholy successfully, CAN you use the hodir enchant and beat the game? No doubt. That's kind of not the point. You don't see new rogues going in with terrible subtlety specs and asking for advice and being told that it's ok, they don't have to be 'the best.'

    It genuinely bothers me that we have a DK representative who is so out of touch with the reality of what is best for a DK tank. You can tell people definitively what they SHOULD do, if they ask for it, without coming accross as a prick, I assure you. (And before someone says it, I know *I* come accross as a prick, but I'm not Satorri and people don't ask me for advice).

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