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Thread: Comprehensive Guide to Death Knight Tanking

  1. #201
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    Aug 2009
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    I just wanted to say thanks for a great guide. I have a DK tank (alt) myself, and i have forced my DKs to check this through. Very usefull indeed

    ps. the only fault i could find is that you say that rune of the fallen crusader is only avaliable for 2-handers, but thats not true

  2. #202
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    Heh, fail in writing, not sure why that was in there, especially seeing as how it was never the case and I've used it regularly on my 1-handed weapons...
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  3. #203
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    Test done so far:
    * 15 minutes of naked heroic dummy bashing, no ToT OH hits have missed/parried/dodged on nothing but OB & BS spam. When the MH did not connect the Rune(s) were refunded, which basicly reduces the hit/expertise values
    * Had 2 reports of the MH on Obliterate miss, but granting Freezing Fog anyway. I will test with MH only later this weekend if I can to see if it is possible to proc Rime on a not-connect.
    * Either I get EXTREMELY lucky, or Rime buff seems to refresh on any Obliterate you cast. (Similar to Blade Barrier)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    * Either I get EXTREMELY lucky, or Rime buff seems to refresh on any Obliterate you cast. (Similar to Blade Barrier)
    You were extremely lucky. Rime does not refresh with every obliterate.

  5. #205
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Ok, LOVE your guide, currently trying to get my DW Frost tank geared up and was having fun pre-80 with it cant wait to start up again. One question though, expertise you say a soft cap of 26 is advisable, so would I be correct in aiming for a 13/13 since I dw or a 26/26? Sorry if this seems kinda stupid but been playing caster classes most of my time and am digging melee and tanking and want to make sure I get it right.

    Thanks for your time

  6. #206
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    The character page splits so you know what the expertise is for each weapon to allow for different weapon types interacting with racials. You still want to reach 26 effectively which would be 26/26 or something close to that.

    13/13 would be the same as a 2-hander with 13 expertise. Does that make sense?
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  7. #207
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    5
    Ahh ok, so just to type it so I understand it well, its as I was just using 1 1h or a 2h. I think I can deal now lol, have geared up a Warlock and a Priest and my first melee past the 40's so some of the ideas are foreign to me. But I am having a blast tanking(well in normal I am, Heroic I am not gonna try and embarass myself being undergeared right now).

  8. #208
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Hey guys,
    Just a quick note..saw this blue posting in the tank forum on WoW..nice little buff coming to DK tanks if it makes it to live...

    Death Knight:

    Frost Presence now provides 8% Stamina, up from 6% Stamina.
    Icebound Fortitude now provides 30% base damage reduction, up from 20% damage reduction. For a geared tank with high defense, this translates to 50% damage reduction, up from 40%.

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...49574063&sid=1

  9. #209
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    Jan 2009
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    It's already live I'm pretty sure. The Paladin nerf is.

  10. #210
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    Oct 2008
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    I believe the change is live but I'm going to wait on updating my numbers until they fix the tooltips.

    I'm pretty psyched though, by my math right now IBF is giving me over 60% damage reduction, pretty serious value. And I can't complain about getting some health back. =)
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  11. #211
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
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    For the grant Hysteria macro, I want to suggest some changes I made too it.

    Code:
    #showtooltip Hysteria
     /cast [target=CharacterName] Hysteria
     /w CharacterName You have Hysteria, smoosh eet!!
     /raid CharacterName has Hysteria, he could use a HoT!
    I modified it to use a simpler system so you don't have to have a different macro for everyone you could cast it on

    Code:
    #showtooltip Hysteria
    /cast [target=exists,help,nodead] Hysteria
    /stopmacro [noexists][harm][dead]
    /script SendChatMessage("You have Hysteria","WHISPER",nil,UnitName("target"))
    /raid %t has Hysteria, he could use a HoT
    This macro has added features from the original! But there are some trade offs. For starters it can be cast on any unit that can be targeted, is friendly, and is not dead. It will termanite itself if the target doesn't meet these parameters (I.E. The target isn't friendly, you don't have a target, or the target is dead). It will then whisper the player the good new, AND send a tell to raid chat.

    The trade off? You actually have to target the unit in question, while a line can be added, so that character actually gets targeted it makes it less work to change characters.
    Code:
    #showtooltip Hysteria
    /cast [target=exists,help,nodead,"CHARACTERNAMEHERE"] Hysteria
    /stopmacro [noexists][harm][dead]
    /script SendChatMessage("You have  Hysteria","WHISPER",nil,UnitName("target"))
    /raid %t has Hysteria, he could use a HoT
    Modifications of the message can be made, but since I'm using Lua to send the whisper you need to keep modifications under 48 characters (counting unit name, if you so choose to include it).


    Just throwing it out there for consideration.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by leethaxor View Post
    The trade off? You actually have to target the unit in question, while a line can be added, so that character actually gets targeted it makes it less work to change characters.
    And that would be a helpful macro, I'm sure people would appreciate the semi-automated version of the standard use. Also very good for pugs. My design was specifically to *avoid* having to target the person, and it was/is intended for fixed or anticipated raid groups. At least it is very easy to copy the macro at the beginning of the raid and put in the name of the person you want to favor.

    Not requiring targeting is what makes this very very easy to use while tanking as I don't have to stop what I'm doing even for a moment.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  13. #213
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    6
    Hello, Satorri.

    First of all I would say that this is the best guide I've ever read. Ever. It's a first time I completely agree with writer in every aspect

    But there's one thing that I would like to discuss a bit: AOE tanking of incoming adds.

    Basically preconditions are: I don't need to tank a hard-hitting boss. I have to tank a lot of incomming adds like 4+, and they come relatively frequently and my goal to keep them all on me. So agro is a main concern.

    So my question is - what would be the best spec in this case. I guess frost and unholy would be nice.

    Personally I want to try DW frost for this case. But one thing confuses me a bit: I have 2T10, so I have bonus for DnD. Coupled with glyph + Morbidity DnD can be really helpfull for AOE tanking in my case. But in your guide I can see that you do not advise to use DnD in frost.

    Can you give me some comments?

    Just for info: I have pretty good gear from ICC25. In blood I have 47.3khp unbuffed at the moment with 60.89% avoidance and 1800 strength.

    And if this topic already was discussed somewhere on the forum - can you please give me the link?

    Again. My major goal is to find the best way of tanking multiple incoming adds.
    Last edited by Shuss; 02-11-2010 at 03:18 PM.

  14. #214
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    Feb 2010
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    1

    Frost and DnD

    DnD is fine for Frost, assuming you're not using it multiple times on a single pull. "Not recommended" does not mean "Never use it. I swear to god, if you touch that DnD button I'll crawl through your monitor and pluck your eyebrows until your toilet begs me to stop". It's great to use when gearing up for pulling groups when you've got overgeared/stupid dps to contend with, though it's still not really worth it to buff up. As an example, a guildie recently switched to tanking on his DK and refused to use DnD at all, citing that the guide, meaning this one, said that it wasn't recommended. His spec was fine, his glyphs were fine, even his gear was more than adequate for heroics. After spending half of OK being ribbed at for constantly losing aggro, even with the dps holding back, he starts using DnD on group pulls. The difference was night and day. Granted, dps still had to watch it, but it still took more than a single KM'ed HB to pull threat.

    Which brings me to why I was initially posting. Satorri, if you would, could you put a note in the DnD for Frost section saying that it's okay to use? While the rune cooldown thing is a big downside, I'd say a fair few people looking at the guide will be in the process of gearing up initially and they can use all the threat they can get, especially since they're likely to also be using fast tank weapons for the extra stats.

  15. #215
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    Feb 2010
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    If that means I should cast DnD once while pulling a pack of mobs then I don't see any reason to have DnD glyphed. Also in this case there is no reason to take Morbidity in talents.

    No. My concern is: does it make sense to have DnD in rotation as a Frost DW tank?

    It would be awesome to add to this guide a detailed analysis about AOE tanking of multiple mobs (3-4+). I'm sure many DK tanks will appreciate such information a lot
    Last edited by Shuss; 02-11-2010 at 06:03 PM.

  16. #216
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    I think in the guide Satori mentions that rotations can/ need to change depending on the situation you see in front of you. If the situation calls for a DnD, by all means go for it. If, like me in the beginning of my DK tanking career, you notice you can't hold aggro even against the weakest DPS, or healer, in your group, then you need to add DnD to your rotation.

    When (raid) tanking in frost talented spec, I expect Howling Blast followed by Blood boil to do enough initial damage to glue mobs to me, and I very rarely use DnD.

  17. #217
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    Feb 2010
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    Ok. Can I ask another question: which spec will have highest DPS numbers from DnD with 2T10 bonus (+a glyph as an option). I guess it will be unholy, but will there be a big difference comparing to blood with all threat talents taken?

  18. #218
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    I would actually recommend Frost for the situation you're describing, though Unholy would be a strong second especially with the 2 pc t10 bonus (Unholy with glyphed and set bonused DnD? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha).

    The perk of Frost here is the nature of repeatedly available HB which is great burst aoe threat for pick-ups. Like Daft said just above this it's not a bad idea to use DnD, it's just a tricky hand off. Specifically, using DnD keeps you from your other tools and messes with your tree functionalities. It's not bad to use, I just wouldn't generally glyph it, or put points in Morbidity.

    The value is simply this: DnD is small steady threat that can be setup to tick passively while you do whatever else you do. This can be very important in certain situations and what you're describing could be one of them. If you have regular pulses of adds coming from a set location you can pre-emptively set DnD smartly to get their attention and start applying threat to everything. If you have glyphed HB you can back that up with a quick splash that will do a big burst of threat *and* apply FF so your DnD and future abilities also do their best threat. If you add a BB with your final Blood rune you have the math for some silly strong AoE threat.

    Some people take that and say, "if I'm using DnD I MUST take Morbidity." I am generally not a fan though, partly because Frost is strapped for points to get many of the delicious talents, and because half the talent is wasted as you will rarely use DC, but also because if you are using DnD on CD every 15 sec you are impairing your Frost-style goodness so much that you might as well spec Unholy and you will probably see as much or more AoE value.

    So in general for these situations I'd recommend using DnD early but not often. Get comfortable using HB to be the backbone of your AoE attention, and use DnD to cover your holes where you need it.

    Here is some extensive math I did on a similar question, though it was targeted a bit more at "can I use DnD as my best move on single targets."
    http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...-T10-and-glyph
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  19. #219
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    13
    Thank you SO much for this.
    I turned my oft-forgot 80 dps DK into a 2h frost tank for quicker badges, and found its harder than it looks. I'm a protection warrior 99% of the time, so the idea of having to run off of runes was a little scary to me!
    This is the BEST death knight tanking guide anywhere on the net. Period. It answered ALL of my newbie DK questions, and cleared up a lot more, too. Thank you so much for taking the immense amount of time to write this up for us in such a clear, concise way!
    I'm not at the point where I can even tank heroics yet, but I feel more confident now that I have an idea of what to do

    Thanks again!
    choo choo

  20. #220
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    6
    Thank you for clarification, Satorri. Can you give a suggestion about talents? I understand, that people play styles differ a lot, but how YOU would distribute talents in my case? And what spec would you use? 2h frost? DW slow-slow frost?

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