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Thread: Comprehensive Guide to Death Knight Tanking

  1. #21
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    Hey satorri, Im setting up power auras (fun tool by the way) I want to use it to track my rime procs better, however I cant get rime (freezing fog) to work
    I set up Killing machine and blade barrier fine so im not sure what the problem is. Any tips on this one?
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodwraith View Post
    Stuck
    Yay.....

  3. #23
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    Actually, I'm hoping to find software to let me do some video editing so I can start adding some video guides to addons (as navigating the options windows on some are a little tricky and easier to do with visual aids).

    But, I have Rime setup, and I think you have the only thing you need to know, the buff it gives is actually called "Freezing Fog" and that's what Power Auras will register.

    Did you re-check the spelling and make sure no boxes were checked that shouldn't apply? Such as "exact spelling" or "enemy target?" Also, make sure you're using the "Buff" key as the proc provides a buff.

    An alternate but obviously less appealing method until you get the Rime aura working would be to simply make a "Action Usable" tracker for Howling Blast. It won't distinguish HB coming off cooldown from a Rime proc, but it will at least let you know it's usable.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
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    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Actually, I'm hoping to find software to let me do some video editing so I can start adding some video guides to addons (as navigating the options windows on some are a little tricky and easier to do with visual aids).

    But, I have Rime setup, and I think you have the only thing you need to know, the buff it gives is actually called "Freezing Fog" and that's what Power Auras will register.

    Did you re-check the spelling and make sure no boxes were checked that shouldn't apply? Such as "exact spelling" or "enemy target?" Also, make sure you're using the "Buff" key as the proc provides a buff.

    An alternate but obviously less appealing method until you get the Rime aura working would be to simply make a "Action Usable" tracker for Howling Blast. It won't distinguish HB coming off cooldown from a Rime proc, but it will at least let you know it's usable.


    Debuff Filter is an extremly good tool for showing an icon when certain buffs proc, IE Rime, Freezing Fog, or for tracking when buffs are up such as VB or UA. It also tracks debuffs such as diseases if you want a more visual approach. It's real easy to set up, takes maybe 5 minutes and is useful for target, player, or even focus. Uses a very small amount of memory as well.
    Havx | <Tasty Beverage> | US Alliance | Bleeding Hollow
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Hollow&cn=Havx

  5. #25
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    Still cant figure out why it didnt work at first, but i "fixed" it
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  6. #26
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    Question with regards to blood tanking.

    Dancing rune weapon - although I previously thought this a DPS only talent point, I've been left wondering recently if there is a use for this in tanking. Specifically looking at getting agro quick.

    My question is though anyone got any idea if DRW counts as a pet and therefore builds its own agro table or if its attacks count as coming from yourself and therefore a 50% agro increase for its duration?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrad View Post
    Question with regards to blood tanking.

    Dancing rune weapon - although I previously thought this a DPS only talent point, I've been left wondering recently if there is a use for this in tanking. Specifically looking at getting agro quick.

    My question is though anyone got any idea if DRW counts as a pet and therefore builds its own agro table or if its attacks count as coming from yourself and therefore a 50% agro increase for its duration?

    Pet and has it's own agro.

  8. #28
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    DRW is the same as your Ghoul, Bloodworms, and Gargoyle. They are pets, they have their own threat, and that threat never transfers to you. At all.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  9. #29
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    A couple points that stuck out for me:
    ArP increases in value with Sunder/Faerie Fire.
    It might be worth mentioning the value to proposition of SSG is 3% avoidance + 2% stamina vs SS is 4% avoidance (as I recall), is that no longer true?

  10. #30
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    Armor Pen loses value with Sunder and FF as far as how much armor it removes, it still increases your damage done.

    Short-hand explanation, ArP is applied in cascading multipliers with Sunder and FF. So if your target has 10k armor, a full stack of sunder takes that to 8k (20% off), FF takes that to 7.6k (5% off that), and 10% armor reduction from B-G takes that to 6.84k.

    If you look at that in the least flattering way, you would say it only removed 760 armor (7.6% not 10%), but it'd be a little higher if you took all the reductions at essentially the same time. If you're talking about reducing the damage reduction (oops I've gone cross-eyed), then reducing 1k armor from 10k or 760 from 7.6k you're still not doing better in the overall damage buffing sense. Let me dig through my numbers, I ran the calculations on this a while back.

    Your SSG vs SS is true, but I thought I mentioned that. I may have only done it in my head, thank you, I'll go back and check. =)
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  11. #31
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    I'm trying to find where I read it was more effective (in terms of damage output) but I'm coming up empty. Should Ret Pallies be in the second tier for Hysteria? I could be wrong, but Hysteria affects basically any attack modified by ArP and its value for a Ret Pally is really low because it only affects about 35% of their damage. Frost and Unholy would actually benefit quite a bit (because of high melee and Obliterate usage for Frost, and Scourge Strike now being physical based at its core).

  12. #32
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    Hysteria increases anything that is "physical" damage. Ret pallies do a lot of physical damage, but not entirely, they still get a lot of magic damage. Thus the second tier. Maybe they deserve the same treatment as Frost/Unholy DK's I haven't had a good parse on Retadins or Frost DK's in a while.

    At the end of the day though, it's hard to beat a dps warrior or kitteh, they only do physical damage really (yes little snippets not here and there).
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  13. #33
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    Just to double check my reasoning (and I know this isn't a primary point of your guide so I'll try to avoid cluttering the thread too much), I looked at a recent log for a ret pally in my guild. Out of all of their abilities, exactly three are physical based. Melee (19.8%), Crusader Strike (9.8%), and Divine Storm (5%). That matches pretty closely the number I picked out of a Ret Pally guide. The rest is Holy damage and unaffected by Hysteria (you might make an argument for Righteous Vengeance 8.7% being partially caused by Crusader Strike and Divine Storm crits, but that still doesn't make the physical boost compelling).

    Meanwhile, the last time I was Unholy on the same boss:
    22.8% Melee, 28.7% Scourge Strike, 5.5% Blood Strike, 2.9% BCB, 2.4% PS = 62.3% physical

    Hardly on the same scale as a kitty, warrior, or blood DK, but certainly better than a ret paladin. Likewise, I don't have any logs of me as Frost handy, but I remember Obliterate damage comprising about 38% of my damage alone (I could be mistaken).

  14. #34
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    Scourge Strike is currently only ~57% physical damage (assuming you're using it with 3 diseases always, and if you were measuring before the current patch it's not physical at all). But that's good info to have, thank you.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  15. #35
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    It was post patch, and while the damage is only 57% physical, the shadow portion is based entirely off the amount of physical damage done. It won't double dip like it does with other modifiers, but it benefits from Hysteria (1.2 * the physical damage modifies the shadow damage by 1.2 in turn).

    I also forgot why to mention why using Hysteria on warriors is largely a wasted measure. It won't stack with Wrecking Crew on Arms Warriors or Deathwish for Fury (so if you give it to a Fury Warrior, you need to coordinate).

    While I looked that up, I found the list from patch 3.1 that describes somethings to consider when giving out Hysteria:
    "Hysteria, Tricks of the Trade, Enrage, Wrecking Crew, Death Wish, Arcane Power, Owlkin Frenzy, Beast Within, and Avenging Wrath damage bonuses no longer stack together."

  16. #36
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    Yeah, it overwrites Wrecking Crew for Arms warriors giving 10% more damage done (cut in half essentially). It's pretty easy though to not overlap with Death Wish.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  17. #37
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    Satorri, I don't post much but just wanted to comment that this guide is awesome!
    Great info, I just went dps with my DK but I may go back to tanking now, keep up the great work.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sterbefall View Post
    I'm trying to find where I read it was more effective (in terms of damage output) but I'm coming up empty. Should Ret Pallies be in the second tier for Hysteria? I could be wrong, but Hysteria affects basically any attack modified by ArP and its value for a Ret Pally is really low because it only affects about 35% of their damage. Frost and Unholy would actually benefit quite a bit (because of high melee and Obliterate usage for Frost, and Scourge Strike now being physical based at its core).
    Just browsing around but,

    We were doing deathwhisper a few nights ago and found that our 4.5k ret paladin (who we stuck on adds...mistakenly in hindsight) does a surprisingly TINY amount of actual physical damage. His normal dps is somewhere around 4 and a half raid buffed if not higher, and on the adds that take almost no magical damage he was pulling around 1.6k.

    Judging from that alone i would never waste a hysteria on a ret pally unless there was NOTHING else to blow it on, and even then i'd consider myself a better alternative than him probably.

  19. #39
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    Maybe I didn't catch it, but Death Strike for Unholy spec tanks is pretty powerful. It heals just as much as Blood tanks w/ 3 diseases, and you can use it more often in Unholy than you can in Blood. Blood will just give you slightly more stamina to increase the effect of Death Strike.

    The only thing you lose as Unholy by doing that is threat, but you can start out w/ SS and move to DS later on in the fight, as you've built up great amounts of Threat. Plus, Runestrike will continue to provide a huge amount of threat necessary to handle aggro, even swapping out SS for DS.

    A lot of information and well written. TY!

  20. #40
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    In the unholy section, you describe rolling unholy blight as something worth pursuing. However, it would appear that unholy blight functions in the same manner as the current ignite and deep wound, such that when the DoT is reapplied, while already in effect, the remaining damage of the current effect is spread across the new effect. This in fact only defers your damage rather than increasing it. Which is rarely of any benefit while tanking.

    If this is the correct model, I don't see how it would be possible to obtain a 2k blight tick. If it were possible to throw deathcoils every second (i.e. with only one tick of damage being spent between the DoT being refreshed) you would need an average deathcoil damage of over 20k (10k for the older UB). It would take 29 of these to reach 1.9k per tick and a further 43 to reach 1.99k.

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