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Thread: Unholy AOE Spec

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charrlie View Post
    I wanted to get clarification about Two handed weapon specialization from what Edgewalker said. The way I understand the tooltip 2hand specialization only increases damage for attacks that use your 2 handed weapon, is that wrong?

    I know with my warrior, 1 hand specialization tooltip says physical damage is increased when a 1 handed weapon is equipped. So I take that as all damage done is increased which is similar to the paladin 1 hand spec talent.
    The DK talent is not the same as the Warrior/Pally talent (which increases all your damage done, essentially, so long as you're using a 1-handed weapon).

    2-hand spec will increase your base weapon damage by 2/4%. So, if you look at your melee tab of your character sheet, where it calculates your weapon damage factoring your weapon, AP, and static scalars, that value will increase by 2/4%. The trickle-down is that all of your "-strikes" scale off of that value, so they will see the buff indirectly.

    For example, Scourge Strike takes 50% of your weapon damage, but that gets increased by 25% per disease, so 50% x 1.75 = 87.5%, and Outbreak (3/3) increases ScS damage by 20%, so that becomes 87.5% x 1.20 = 105% weapon damage. So, 2 pts in 2-hand Spec would increase ScS damage by 4.2%.

    It would also affect your melee swings, RS, PS, and BS. All of which add up to a pretty decent amount of your threat. It is a talent worth taking, if you can get there with your other priorities.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    I think you missed the point. It isn't about holding aggro, it's a trivial discussion about doing as much aoe DPS (not threat, DPS), presumably to speed through trash. In this scenario, you kind of have to ignore people pulling threat, and anything other than an unholy spec (unless you claim that a Frost or Blood can out AoE an AoE Unholy spec.).

    Speaking of blood specs is hijacking this thread towards bloodspec lovers!
    Oh I know, talking less about the OP and more about the constantly repeated, and terribly wrong, mantra that Blood is bad for AoE or heroics. I've been blood consistently for the past 3 patches and still clear heroics in 5-15 minutes depending on the instance without threat of losing agro. It's a playstyle issue when people fail with blood, nothing else :\

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    Oh I know, talking less about the OP and more about the constantly repeated, and terribly wrong, mantra that Blood is bad for AoE or heroics. I've been blood consistently for the past 3 patches and still clear heroics in 5-15 minutes depending on the instance without threat of losing agro. It's a playstyle issue when people fail with blood, nothing else :\
    Blood is 'viable' for heroics. And i don't respec for heroics myself, but that doesn't make blood's aoe threat "good," in comparison to anything.

    If you are "good" at blood aoe, that's fine, but you have to recognize that if you were "good" at unholy or frost rotations too, your aoe threat would improve. Like i said earlier, I still consider blood to be a better all-around spec, but to say that blood is somehow superior on the front of aoe threat alone is hog-wash.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    Oh I know, talking less about the OP and more about the constantly repeated, and terribly wrong, mantra that Blood is bad for AoE or heroics. I've been blood consistently for the past 3 patches and still clear heroics in 5-15 minutes depending on the instance without threat of losing agro. It's a playstyle issue when people fail with blood, nothing else :\
    Methinks you have seen this before:

    RaidLeader: <In LFG Channel> Looking for Whelp Tank for Ony 25, PST!
    Edgewalker: Geared DK tank <Achievement Link>
    <Edgwalker has joined the raid>
    RaidLeader: What's your spec?
    Edgewalker: Blood
    <Edgewalker has left the raid>
    <LoLSwipeSpam has joined the raid>

    And yes, I agree, Blood is just fine as an AoE tank, it's a holdover from several patches ago (like warrior tanks who don't like to be priest shielded).

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proletaria View Post
    Blood is 'viable' for heroics. And i don't respec for heroics myself, but that doesn't make blood's aoe threat "good," in comparison to anything.

    If you are "good" at blood aoe, that's fine, but you have to recognize that if you were "good" at unholy or frost rotations too, your aoe threat would improve. Like i said earlier, I still consider blood to be a better all-around spec, but to say that blood is somehow superior on the front of aoe threat alone is hog-wash.
    To me "good" is being able to easily hold a pack of mobs over any possible DPS AoE. Blood achieves this with little effort, as well as Unholy, as well as any other tank, slightly worse than Frost. That's all.
    People also have this weird obsession with Unholy being some great AoE force... it's not as good as frost, about par with Blood. You gain more disease damage and wandering plague (almost trivial for a tank, AND unreliable) at the cost of a Heart Strike cleave, 30% more Blood Boils, and the ability to DS - double Blood Boil Death Rune dumb on the next rotation. The caveat of Corpse Explosion is that if a mob is dead for you to explode, chances are you are about to be done with the pack...
    I'm still waiting for some actual reasoning besides anecdotal evidence. Anyone feel free to step in. Please bear in mind that this is a TANKING discussion also... Wandering Plague is a different beast when used by DPS with 40% crit.
    Last edited by Edgewalker; 12-31-2009 at 02:58 PM.

  6. #26
    The reason i took more frost damage over increased 2h weapon damage was because this is a pure AOE spec, 5% more frost damage hits everyone that has frost fever increasing my 2h weapon damage does not increase aoe damage.

    If you are AOE'ing as blood i can see how pestilence would not be as powerful but with the damage increase on diseases its a still a very valuable tool and makes AOE threat less bursty and more sustained. Using this unholy spec and glyphing disease is simply rediculous AOE threat, spamming blood boil, glyphed DnD, and pestilence is enough AOE threat to hold off even the most trigger happy warlock tab-seeding.

  7. #27
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    I've never seen or been discriminated against for being a Blood tank, regardless of circumstance. Maybe I'm lucky that I don't have to do many random pug raids, but I haven't seen that as a common theme in the community either.

    That said, dumb is real and quantifiable, that doesn't mean we give it credence and change the way we play to appease the dumb...
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  8. #28
    My main tank spec is blood and as far as i have seen on our server that is the trend. I dont know how you could be discriminated against because really in the end blood is the strongest 2h tank spec. I have never had anyone question me speccing blood as the MT.

    The only time i have ever had to explain myself for anything was speccing DW tank but i can understand why people question that.

  9. #29
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    I wasn't really talking about discrimination, I'm just curious where people come up with their ideas that Unholy is somehow better than Blood for AoE threat or heroic tanking threat. It's just.... not.

  10. #30
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    Unholy isn't better for aoe tanking, so it's a moot point regardless of how much more sustained threat it can or cannot produce. It functions the worst in terms of actually staying alive while tanking a lot of adds, thus i'd never suggest it's use for heroics.

    With that being said, there is plenty of room to debate the capacity of the three trees to generate threat. Given there are quite a few varieties of frost and blood tanking specs and not all of them are very aoe-oriented, I wouldn't presume one defaulted as a better option. It depends entirely on what you spec and glyph for with your floater points.

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