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Thread: Dodge/Parry/Block cap?

  1. #1
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    Dodge/Parry/Block cap?

    Hi, searched around the internet for a bit, didn't see what I was looking for -

    Is there a cap for Dodge, Parry, and Block before diminishing returns? I found something that said 102.4%, but that wasn't clear. Wowwiki has no solid number.

    Trying to figure out what I should gem for on my Protection Paladin. Armory link in my signature, thanks.

  2. #2
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    If the sum total of your dodge+parry+block+miss = 102.4% AFTER diminishing returns, then any attack made against you by a level 83 (I.E. Boss Mob) will be either a block, or avoided.

    This comes from the 100% needed against a level 80, plus 0.8% for each level after that (which comes from 0.2% per each stat per level).

    However, don't go out of your way to get this. For one ICC pretty much makes it undesirable with chill of the throne. Don't go gemming for it.

  3. #3
    I think he means :
    At what point of % dodge/parry/block do you stop stacking something due to DR.

    Personally due to gemming /gearing for progressive tanking I dont gem anything besides pure stamina or in case of rock solid socket bonus of at LEAST +9 sta but rather +12 I would gem for dodge/sta or def/sta to get it.
    Unbuffed on my character sheet I have :
    45500 hp.
    dodge: 29%
    parry : 21%
    block : 17%

    At this point dodge still gives more than parry so I stick to dodge gemming for red sockets or def/sta for yellow sockets.
    Although looking @ gear in ICC I might start gemming exp/sta since you go from 45-50 expertise in ToC to 20-25 in ICC but gain hitcap easy.

    Ofc Im a warrior. Im aware of some paladins gemming for agi/sta instead of dodge sta. Ill let you decide on yourself if that is wise or not (personally that small gain in armor/threat/crit you gain isnt enough to convince me. TPS shouldnt be an issue + armor gain is minimum )

  4. #4
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    From an EHP standpoint agi even for a warrior makes sense. It is the only gem that adds to EHP as well as other benefits. agi/stam is currently the gem I use to hit my meta requirement.
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  5. #5
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    Oh in that case, there is no hard cap on avoidance pre DR at all (and block is not subject to DR). As alluded to earlier, there is a crossover point where parry is better than dodge, but it changes as you get more gear. The main thing is try to gem based on this:

    IF (charsheet_dodge% - 10) is:
    GREATER than 1.875*(charsheet_parry% - 10), gem Parry
    LESS than 1.875*(charsheet_parry% - 10), gem Dodge

    However, you need to check it every so often, because as you add dodge and parry, that point moves around.
    Last edited by jere; 12-13-2009 at 07:47 AM.

  6. #6
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    Thanks very much, that if then is exactly what I was looking for!

    Is that a macroable command you listed above?

  7. #7
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    Yes, though I don't know the ins and outs of the /script part of macros. There should be something over at maintankadin. I would check the Addon/macros forum there.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard_lc View Post
    Hi, searched around the internet for a bit, didn't see what I was looking for -

    Is there a cap for Dodge, Parry, and Block before diminishing returns? I found something that said 102.4%, but that wasn't clear. Wowwiki has no solid number.

    Trying to figure out what I should gem for on my Protection Paladin. Armory link in my signature, thanks.
    There is a theoretical avoidance cap, but at current gear, it's unattainable. Expect this to be the case in the forseeable future.

    There is a block cap, which is the point where extra block chance won't be of use anymore. This is 102.4% combined block, parry, miss and dodge. Note that increasing your miss, parry and dodge will help after this point.

    There is a point to each of them before diminishing returns kick in.
    For dodge and parry, it's base dodge or parry plus any flat percentage increases you get. (Like from talents.)
    For block chance, there is no diminishing returns as far as I know. There are diminishing returns of sorts on block value, but that's a different story.
    For miss, I'm not sure where DR starts, it's possible there is no DR-free zone for it.

    Talking or thinking about caps is not something you should really do as a tank. Quite frankly, if you are passively capped for anything, you are doing something wrong.
    (Notable exceptions: Anub 25 heroic add tanks, expertise soft cap(which isn't really a cap), paladins with holy shield up(which isn't passively done, but mentioned here because otherwise people will claim I'm forgetting about it), specific sets for a specific purpose can be built to hit a cap.)
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martie View Post
    Talking or thinking about caps is not something you should really do as a tank. Quite frankly, if you are passively capped for anything, you are doing something wrong.
    (Notable exceptions: Anub 25 heroic add tanks, expertise soft cap(which isn't really a cap), paladins with holy shield up(which isn't passively done, but mentioned here because otherwise people will claim I'm forgetting about it), specific sets for a specific purpose can be built to hit a cap.)
    That's not really true. Being passively capped is not a "wrong" thing. Considering the 3.3 changes, it is actually in your best interest to be expertise soft capped for threat now as expertise is the #1 threat stat until then.

    I think what you are trying to get at is that going out of your way to hit a cap at the expense of much better stats isn't a good idea, but there is nothing wrong with hitting those caps, even slightly intentionally.

  10. #10
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    Armor has a cap. It stops at 75% which is a ways before the curve actually would asymptote (the value it never quite reaches so at some point it's functionally flat).

    Avoidance, dodge, parry, and miss, do *not* have such a cap. They simply never reach their cap (88%, 47%, and 16%, respectively sparing the decimals). Because of this, the value gained is always a curve and has no inflection points or points where suddenly you get a very different value from your avoidance ratings.

    In short, there are no caps except for the "unhittable" cap Vene mentioned where you will block everything you don't avoid. After that point it is just your block chance that is being wasted, and avoidance still continues to give you value.

    The other point is also true, with Chill of the Throne you won't be hitting that point in ICC without sacrificing a lot, if it is even possible. I haven't crunched the numbers but 20% avoidance is a LOT to overcome to get back to that 102.4%.
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