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Thread: Halls of Reflection HC

  1. #41
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    The alcove strategy only works if DPS and especially the healer actually uses the line of sight.
    If they don't then this spot is an effing liability. If you are grouped with complete muppets then the hallway and CC is your friend.

    Since I use the LFG tool I assume the latter. I really, really hate tanking in closed spaces or with my back to the wall. the camera zooms so much in that I do suddenly in fact all of a sudden play in 1st person view where all I can see is the mob in my face and not what's going on behind him.
    If I heal in there I also hate this spot because there is always one jester who is outside of the alcove and I have to leave my safe spot in order to save his wothless hide.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
    pioneer of representative government who was
    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  2. #42
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    Not the tank!

    I see lots of ppl pointing out "the lost arts of CC and Los"; really? I havent NOT seen the LoS pull on this (regardless of tank class) and since I'm part of the CC, I DG or Strangulate the ranged in to the tank like I'm supposed too. This instance is the easiest of the 3 new LK by far. A few things that have seemed to work in the LFG PUGs I've been in so far (about a half dozen runs on Heroic with no wipes):

    The alcove - use the talking time to buff
    Get out of LoS - I stay to the back so I can still see (Yes I need to "see" in order to DPS/CC and yes the alcove sucks for visibility) and this seems to work fine even with my ghoul out
    Just about ANY AoE that has a large graphic display can make it crazy in the alcove so be aware of your surroundings (mobs, your target, tank and healer)
    AoE wont work if the mobs aren't in the A of the E- make sure the gangs all here before you hit that key
    If you are going to use an AoE check for any CC before you break it
    Watch your Threat Meter (I use Omen) - you installed it for a reasoon didn't you?

    A big one that applies to any group/raid leader (or party member) - have a fundemantal understanding of what the other classes in your group can do (I'm trying to learn to tank - slowly lol)

    For the run - I prefer the "After Burner" ; it seems to go faster

    On a side note:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post

    The problem is, all DPS cares about anymore is spamming their rotation and being at the top of the meter. If you can get them to remember they used to have a job BESIDES pewpewing things, this fight gets so much simpler.
    If you are not posting high DPS you run the risk of getting kicked; this happened before the new LFG and still applies. No group is going to say, "Wow, that was some awesome CC you just did there, so its ok that youre on the bottom of the DPS list!" Reality check. I'm a DPS class and DPS is my main job- CC is just a bonus I bring to the group, so I'm going to do everything I can to be the top of the DPS list- the faster we burn a mob or boss the less a tank has to worry about holding aggro and the less damage a healer has to heal.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethjonson View Post
    If you are not posting high DPS you run the risk of getting kicked; this happened before the new LFG and still applies. No group is going to say, "Wow, that was some awesome CC you just did there, so its ok that youre on the bottom of the DPS list!" Reality check. I'm a DPS class and DPS is my main job- CC is just a bonus I bring to the group, so I'm going to do everything I can to be the top of the DPS list- the faster we burn a mob or boss the less a tank has to worry about holding aggro and the less damage a healer has to heal.
    True, yet not true.

    Your DPS needs to be competent. If you're in HHoR doing 900 DPS and just standing there autoattacking, yes you're getting kicked. If you're doing 3kdps, I don't really care. that's enough for the encounter. If you end up doing 2.5k because you were death gripping or shacking something that helped me, you better believe that I will thank you for it, and god help the idiot that wants to kick you. I'm more likely to kick someone for not paying attention and causing a wipe that I am for someone doing less DPS but helping the group. And any competent group will say the same.
    Last edited by Eisen; 01-12-2010 at 07:28 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    True, yet not true.

    Your DPS needs to be competent. If you're in HHoR doing 900 DPS and just standing there autoattacking, yes you're getting kicked. If you're doing 3kdps, I don't really care. that's enough for the encounter. If you end up doing 2.5k because you were death gripping or shacking something that helped me, you better believe that I will thank you for it, and god help the idiot that wants to kick you. I'm more likely to kick someone for not paying attention and causing a wipe that I am for someone doing less DPS but helping the group. And any competent group will say the same.
    I echo this. If you're getting kicked out of group because your DPS dropped a little due to helping the tank out etc, then I think you're better off. That said, as a tank (healer and even DPS)... if I see anyone doing that to help the group, and is in danger of getting kick, I'll definitely back him out.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but some people will just have to remember (or be reminded) that helping the group out is a greater contribution than the loss of the 100-300 DPS. Especially if everyone is already pulling the average DPS required for the content (avg 3k dps being for H HoR imho).

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethjonson View Post
    I see lots of ppl pointing out "the lost arts of CC and Los"; really? I havent NOT seen the LoS pull on this (regardless of tank class) and since I'm part of the CC, I DG or Strangulate the ranged in to the tank like I'm supposed too. This instance is the easiest of the 3 new LK by far. A few things that have seemed to work in the LFG PUGs I've been in so far (about a half dozen runs on Heroic with no wipes):

    The alcove - use the talking time to buff
    Get out of LoS - I stay to the back so I can still see (Yes I need to "see" in order to DPS/CC and yes the alcove sucks for visibility) and this seems to work fine even with my ghoul out
    Just about ANY AoE that has a large graphic display can make it crazy in the alcove so be aware of your surroundings (mobs, your target, tank and healer)
    AoE wont work if the mobs aren't in the A of the E- make sure the gangs all here before you hit that key
    If you are going to use an AoE check for any CC before you break it
    Watch your Threat Meter (I use Omen) - you installed it for a reasoon didn't you?

    A big one that applies to any group/raid leader (or party member) - have a fundemantal understanding of what the other classes in your group can do (I'm trying to learn to tank - slowly lol)

    For the run - I prefer the "After Burner" ; it seems to go faster
    Yes, that's what you do and that's what everybody else should do. Problem is, one DPS running out to get that mob means the healer also has to move in harms way and this is where it all falls apart. This strat only works if everybody plays ball. Sad thing is you hardly can afford to lose any DPS on the waves.
    The LOS strat is only as good as its weakest link. Playing in the open still allows for CC(TBH only one DPS bothering with CC hugely helps) yet you have visibility and room to move out of AoE.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
    pioneer of representative government who was
    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  6. #46
    I've done the LoS method as a tank one time and hated it.

    But I like I said above, the first part of HoR is one of the few places in current content where I have to work a little to tank it properly and my actions really matter in the end outcome (Lets face it, most of the time - especially in raids - we get to stand there and...well, basically go afk. =/) So I guess that's why I enjoy just standing out in the open.

    That and it doesn't really help unless your tank is already pretty lazy or inept, to be frank. Not trying to be elitist or anything here, just...seriously, if your tank can't pick up 3-4 mobs in a situation like this, they're just not trying. And heck, I'm a Bear, my ranged threat and anti-caster tools are pretty meh.

  7. #47
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    Ok, done both the hallway, and alcove strat...both were viable--I'm even leaning a bit more on the hallway one, right now. Still, in Shadow Priest mode...it was definitely easier to keep the healer out of harm's way, in a balanced melee/caster group, and I could see better, when a mob was taking an interest in me, and counteract more quickly. I also noticed that my Shackle spell was a lot more useful, because cc was less likely to get broken, on a lone mob--particularly the hunters.

    Still the LOS alcove works just fine, as long as tank is allowed to get aggro, dps has a clear kill order, and interrupts are used. Plus, once initial pull/aggro is set, it probably helps tank for the rest of the group to get out of the corner, and spread out--inside the alcove...this even gives the tank, or someone, time to mark at least a skull-at-a-time, for impromptu kill order.
    -"Just like a buzzin' fly, I come into your life, I'll float away, like honey in the sun..."--Tim Buckley

  8. #48
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    Hi, I'm a DPS. This means that my opinion is entirely devoid of value, but I'm mad, so I'm going to share it anyway. Perhaps I'll even hit the jackpot and a meatshield will come along and agree with my point of view. Maybe.

    From where does this belly fire stem, some of you may ask? Well, you're ruining the Halls of Reflection. Ruining, not running.

    This "strategy" that seems the cornerstone of H HoR PuG runs is strangling the joy out of a brilliantly designed instance. Hell, Blizzard have already nerfred the thing in response to the tearful majority. Yes, I'm talking about the LoS strategy for the trash waves. It doesn't work.

    My understanding of the concept is that if everybody is in the alcove bar the tank, all the mobs will run past a choke point where the tank can AoE grab them all in a bunch so that DPS can AoE the mobs into a grease spot. That's super. Except it's not what happens.

    If everybody bar the tank is sitting at the apex of the alcove, the tank will sit out in the open, but in a PuG you can bet that the tank will be behind the spot where the party is. Result? DPS/Heals facepull through the wall. Okay, no worries, the tank can grab mobs as they rush through to chomp on delicious squish. Again, PuG. No dice.

    Next, the whole party is in one condensed ball of rage. The mobs will then start pounding the party with AoE damage, so the healer is freaking out and everyone is getting slammed, standing in fire and being told not to move. Aces.

    And this is considered a good strategy why?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quixic View Post
    My understanding of the concept is that if everybody is in the alcove bar the tank, all the mobs will run past a choke point where the tank can AoE grab them all in a bunch so that DPS can AoE the mobs into a grease spot. That's super. Except it's not what happens.

    If everybody bar the tank is sitting at the apex of the alcove, the tank will sit out in the open, but in a PuG you can bet that the tank will be behind the spot where the party is. Result? DPS/Heals facepull through the wall. Okay, no worries, the tank can grab mobs as they rush through to chomp on delicious squish. Again, PuG. No dice.
    It's actually just for the initial aggro. When the mobs have been 'lured' through LOS to the tank, the party can freely move around the enclave till that wave is over (repeat this for each wave). That said, majority of the time, some people will forget to move out of flamestrike which causes the scenario you mentioned. Which is why this strat can be a double-edged sword.

  10. #50
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    I like using the alcove, although I'm a pally tank so it plays to my strengths (lots of things in range of consecration, hammer of the righteous). I tried this last night and found that the first tick of consecration wasn't always enough to get stuff off of the healing agro. So, what seemed to work was 1) Drop consecration 2) Single target agro the first few that come into range around the corner 3) Avengers Shield any mage/priest standing at range 4) Holy Wrath the whole bunch. Now, I've got em stuned, consecration is ticking building up threat, and they should be in a nice neat package waiting to be AoE'd. Still had trouble with the DK deathgripping melee away from me, hunter standing in the open doorway getting agro from mobs running in and a few other things.

    Trying to get a PUG to CC and tank in the hallway seems like a recipe for failure based on what I ran into last night. A group of guildies I can count on working with me? Yeah, I could buy that. But I can't count on PUG-mates to be anything more than a gaggle of semi-skilled individuals, I don't count on teamwork. This is not to say that I haven't observed PUGs having good team-members in them. I've seen the misdirect buff once or twice and had more than a few rogues Tricks of the Trade me.

  11. #51
    Ok so I'm curious I have only tried this with the 2 methods (LoS alcove and Hallway) but I keep hearing about using the statue in the middle for LOS and then shield bash/heroic throw the casters in close. I really want to give this a try but I would prefer to see it in action first. anyone have a video link showing this middle statue method?

  12. #52

    Strat for arthas run

    Hey guys I tried to read most of the posts on the first page and I didn't see this one. On the arthas run to the ship you can start the encounter and let arthas walk past you. Then you will be right where the aboms spawn making it easier to grab aggro and faster for your dps. If you don't make it to the end before rocks fall don't worry they will despawn

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar05 View Post
    Hey guys I tried to read most of the posts on the first page and I didn't see this one. On the arthas run to the ship you can start the encounter and let arthas walk past you. Then you will be right where the aboms spawn making it easier to grab aggro and faster for your dps. If you don't make it to the end before rocks fall don't worry they will despawn
    Oh yea, you can do it that way. But from what I've experienced, you'd only be having issues if DPS is weak (or not focus targeting). No point really to use this because if you can clear the waves portion, this shouldn't really be an issue imho.

  14. #54
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    Teamwork - overview - assignments

    Dealing with Arthas leting him pass you is an has been removed, but if you properly keep singletarget nuking its still doable with a group of dps below 3k.
    an interresting thing to mention is it has alcovesand pillars you can use for LoS pulls. since this originally was for the concerns of a Pala, here's the equivalents of what i use.
    my HB inflicts frostfever while chillblains slows big pulls or hungering cold to get em in front of me holy warth mass stuns them.
    while running from arthas i use D&D on ground on ghouls in front of my group or consecration and hit the first ones to stun them all within the sec it takes to get em ready for the aoe, alos i tell my group to hug the icewall.
    Deathgrip gets me the guy to my hoofs, Avengers shield silences casters does the same. important is whenever i run up mobs with abominations on my tail i run sidewards and curved, around my group to make sure none is facing into my group.

    the burndown/pickup order stays the same, aoe on ghouls markup witchdoctors instaburn when your group is chaos, markup a skull, turn all abomitnations facing away from your group.

    the test still is the waves in the hallway for me - this is what you and your group can do:

    as a DK tank, DG, mindfreeze/strangulate and as "oh shit" button i use hungering cold - on incoming large amount of mobs i fire mitigation skills/trinket to help the healer.
    some will arge an abilety will only do for 10 seconds or less. 10 seconds can buy you valueable time or be an eternity - when something you need is on cd. whatever you can do to make it work, do it.

    I do prefer fighting in the open, and even fighting from the center with a shadow and a holypriest shackling was working - other than the majority of LoS attemps.
    entering it i assign my groups targets:

    Hunter: trap Riflemen - md (i dont dg these since i dont want the trap to jam my entrance when new wave is incoming)
    Paladin: turn Mages (remember killing Halucnation first if its the last mob standing)
    Priest: shackle either of them

    additional help:
    Warrior/Rogue: stuns (rogues - ToT)
    Mage: frostnova (helps tons with Merc's that stun)
    DK: help dg/mindfreze
    *edited

    Lock: if you available, ss your healer. healthcandies.
    Buff up - that includes flasks and buff food too.

    while i cleared it smothly with groups that cc'd and had less than 3k, i had most wipes with spoiled highlevel dps expecting a tank n' spank run of less than 10 mins. Loose someone and it's a wipe and you got the common moaning/yelling/blaming - of 3 guys standing there spamming aoe and geting overwhelmed.

    Alcove LoS and cc won't work together, timeframe is too short to let ranged come and cc anything before you got a cloud of mobs on you, your aoe will break any cc hence its useless. chaos will break loose and you just can't afford to loose anyone in there.
    should it happen none the less, i use raise ally. i rather have a ghoul doing something than a dps that studies the ground for the rest of the waves.

    fighting from the entrance grants you overview, mobs all come from 1 side you can jam the way with your aoe - d&d in my case. after each wave, pull back. I usually markup maintarget with skull. if mages and riflemen are cc'd i want mercenaries to go down fast, their stuns are a pain, if you turn your back you get stunned hence can't run up anything as long as you got one of them on you.

    as for threatt and overview, yes i use omen, but my most valueable tool is grid, mine setup with aggro- and lowmana-warning, granting overview over my whole group - and overview is what you want in there.
    Last edited by Laskia; 03-15-2010 at 07:34 AM. Reason: running behind arthas gets you grilled, gets you nothing but a good laugh and a repairbill ;)

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laskia View Post
    Lock: Fear
    One big nitpick, the mobs are immune to fear due to being undead.
    "Just because it's not nice doesn't mean it's not miraculous." - T. P.

  16. #56
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    ofc you are right, edited that.

  17. #57
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    This may or may not have been mentioned to the op "pally tank" because i ran down the page quickly but on my button bar near my rotation buttons i have Holy wrath spell in there i dont use it much for some content but when in HoR it shines. Get in the first room cons right as the mobs get ready to come. judge the first by then 2 or hopefully 3 more are there HoR then pop holy wrath for the stun win holy shield and get into your rotation.

  18. #58
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    hi there iam having trouble with my dps on hor on the last part i dont know what i do i repeat what i do still come up short . plz help

  19. #59
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    I have found that the best strategy is that the healer sits in the far corner of the alcove, not the one that is LOS, but the exposed corner. Then the meatshield dps stand in front of the healer, and the tank in front of them. It still serves the purpose of LOS (you don't have to be in an alcove to kill LOS) but also allows everyone a pretty clear view of what's incoming.

  20. #60
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    As a warrior tank movement is one of are key features.. we can stun mobs to mitigate dmg.. i personal hate the alcove strategy so i use a slightly modified one i guess.. since most people think the stategy is good for some reason. I start in the middle ( standing in the middle of the alcove) and watch for the two closes/three to see who is going to spawn.. i then either charge and/or spell refec (for the mage), then charge/intercept back on the other side either tc if two or shield slam if one.. by that time the middle will come into play.. depending on the situation i will either tc.. shield slam or taunt a far one then charge it.. I have never wiped on the waves doing it this way.. byt the time everything is settled i am half way out of that stupid alcove and more in the middle where i can see everything going on.. its a good view point to see people standing in the fire /wink. Remember every tank is different.. i see the pure LOS strat more of a paladin tanking strat.. not a warrior tanking strat.

    The funny thing is about this zone.. its fun, and very easy if managed correctly. i find i wipe more on the first boss becuase of lack of dps.. the back half is easy as hell when you drill it into peoples head that single targeting the damn castors one at a time kills them faster then spamming aoe..

    Really this zone at first was intimidating not becuase i couldn't do it.. its becuause other people have become so bad at this game that do i really want to bang my head against a wall or a desk,, ie a mage frosty nova's 4 targets when im running to grab something.. take a guess what happens :P
    Last edited by nobel; 05-05-2010 at 11:03 AM.

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