Hi guys, any advice on tanking the mobs and the last stage with Arthas?
I'm a pally and the first time we went I handled the initial waves of mobs ok but last night I sucked, not sure what I did different or just got lucky first time but sadly I got abused silly by my party which didn't put me in a good mood.
Any advice on how to round up the mobs, where to stand, target order etc? The healer kept getting targetted by the ranged all to quickly and easily it seemed. Take ranged first? (assuming theres no priest)
And when arthas is following, right at the end with three patchwerk things my guys wanted me to tank them into the wall but then my aoe would never stretch to grab the third...cue more abuse 'zomg just use aoe thats all you need to do....'Any tips?
For the waves at the start, have everyone stand in a room area that two bosses start at around a corner to LoS. Consecrate just outside the area. Everything will simply run to you and be grouped up
For the Arthas chase, have *everyone* stand next to the wall to LoS all the mobs (looking at the Witch Doctors). You can drop Consecration just around the corner and grab everything quite easily.
This zone is hilarious for Pally tanks.
"Upon an order we plead, with the lure of a song, a sacred song, to the moon and the stars. An illusionary light is here placed."
My first advice is tell them to go screw themselves with a pineapple. Grow a skin because if going under abuse gets to you, you'll have a hard time recovering.
There's not much to do here: use a single-target ability on the first unit near you, try a hammer once there's more than one together, keep consecration down where one of them spawns, save avenger's shield for a caster...
You can tell which ones are coming, they sorta glow and animate for a moment.
Don't expect to aoe them all together if your party is aoe-happy. Like, DON'T.
Priests and Magi should be taken down first and, without AS, it's easier to just tank the melee where such casters are.
Hunters, if they aren't in melee with you, aren't worth tanking at all. Just make sure they're not being DPSed in their corner and they'll mostly stick to you(they don't drop aggro, they just like shooting different special arrows at different players regardless of threat).
Once you're done with the casters, you can tell if it's worth it moving the melee to the hunter or just killing the melee first, it doesn't matter from there onwards.
Fleeing from arthas is kinda worse, but the idea is the same. Save AS for the witch doctors and have your party always ahead of you. Healer will pick lots of global threat here, so don't expect consecration to grab every add.
One thing that may be harming you is mob positioning: Currently it's all wonky, everywhere. My personal experience is that even aoe tanking with sanc and taking moderate damage(for a heroic), I was running OOM because mobs kept hitting me from behind. Holy Wrath is a godsend, too.
cheers for the advice, sounds like its positioning more than anything thats hampering us.
As for abuse, my philosophy is we succeed as a group and lose as one. There's no call for anyone to ever abuse anyone else, its a game after all. It's not like I go mental when the dps don't attack the target...I just point it out when we have a calm minute
But when you say consecrate just outside the area on the first bosses, do you mean at the top of the steps or literally just outside the tight corner where everyone else stands?
Priest-mage-melee-hunter gotcha
my start that seems to work, when with guildies anyway:
have them all keep running to wall..i drop a concecrate where i know where the lil guys start to pop on the run ( something to figure out on your own) to the wall, got PoJ so can move fairly quick. Drop another at center of wall and have healer and melee stand on me in middle of it..when all the guys land i use holy wrath and forget em ( guildies have some awesome dps ) and i look for the rest, taunt on aboms, save shield for the casters..and use BE racial aswell. and just try by best to hold them. The last wave still gives me trouble but guildies all stay grouped up so i can just run to them and aoe like hell ( conc, holy wrath, shield, hammer, etc )
its got flaws and doesn't seem work all that well with puggers..but i basically have told em how i want them to do it and if they don't listen, they can leave. Had a warlock this morning saying i was a dumbass cause he kept getting hit, til i pointed out that its hard to hold aggro on stupid, and that i can see his shadowbolts headin past me to mobs, he shut up and after 2 wipes we finally got it.
http://www.zetbit.com/sig-1237522.jpg
You take a mortal man, and put him in control, watch him become a god, and peoples heads roll.
For HoR I try to have my party Line of Sight the Mobs although to some people that concept seems alien after the "run in and aoe" bonanza that previous heroics were.
When running for Arthas, I'd say: just have your dps burn down the little jumping adds hard, they don't do much damage and don't really need to be tanked, they die fast enough. This makes you more able to focus on the big mobs. Silencing the casters helps get them "in the pack".
Below is what I just posted to my guild forum regarding the final event in HoR, after finally managing to finish this last night in a pug on my eoc-geared warrior tank.
Bottom line is: as long as you make sure to grab all the abominations, turn them away from the group, and dps burns the witchdoctors first you'll be fine.
There's 3 kind of mobs in this event:
- Raping ghoul -> these should be down before other mobs join the fight
* small jumpy guys at start of each wave, non-elite, only 17k health, hit like sissies
* try to make sure you're closer to the icewall then the tank, so initial aggro is on the tank, then just aoe em down as they arrive
- Risen Witchdoctor -> PRIORITY TARGET FOR DPS
* all dps immediately switches to these at all times, do not finish of the abom your hitting first, by the time he's down the witchdoctor is likely to have killed someone, dps might want to set up a macro
* these are the ones that kill groups (they have a shadowbolt multishot attack like the adds on the void boss in VH, luckily you can see these guys always and not only if you have the debuff)
* don't really need to be tanked, they don't melee just shadowbolt, just burn em fast and use your silences, intterrupts and stuns
- Lumbering Abomination -> PRIORITY TARGET FOR TANKS
* grabbing these and turning them away from the melee/dps is tank priority
* they have a poison breath attack (hence the 'turning them away')
* they cleave, so that's a second reasson to not be in the frontal cone as non-tank
The last wave before you escape is big, and has a big clump at the start and a 2nd big clump a bit later in. The 2nd big clump arriving is when you blow your cooldowns (army of death, heroism, bladestorm, challenging shout, shieldwall, tranquillity, ... ). Army of death is especially nice when the 2nd big clump arrives (that falls under the heading of fighting fire with fire)
The way dps behaves is the difference between if this is easy or impossible, there's just no way you can pick up all the aboms and the wichdoctors while keeping the aboms turned away from the group in that last wave if dps is not burning the witchdoctors fast (especially with the aboms and other mobs being annyoing since patch and constantly running through you)
Last edited by Baridin; 12-11-2009 at 03:24 AM.
I have been trying this instance a few times on heroic only. Haven't tried reg yet so these comments are for heroic.
This has been challenging for me as a Warrior since I don't have lawlsecrate or a way to pull mobs to me. I tried this several ways and the LOS way behind the boss always got the healer or dps killed because:
A. no one could see
B. the healer wasn't helping because they kept healing before the mobs got there and I could get aggro
C. Some dps felt necessary to wail on every and all mobs before I got control. and
D. I had a hard time rounding up the ranged and handling the ones coming from the other side of the room.
So these are lots of problems and I have not had a successful group yet. However, from the wipes and various ways of tanking it I learned a few things:
1. It's not a dps race nor an AOE damage fight. Single targeting and CC helps the tank the most
2. Let the dps go crazy on the priest or mage (if no priest) while you (the tank) picks up everything else
3. The hallways gives better visability - granted you don't have as much LOS but it was much better for me as a warrior to be able to charge and intercept back to get aggro rather than trying to use my thunderfail and trying to position everything for shockwave in a tiny space
4. Get initial aggro on the rifleman and try to LOS him to you or just keep enough aggro on him so he stays on you til you're ready to kill him
I'm here at work nerdraging because all I want is to complete this instance.
This. Especially if you have any DPS in plate. We did this last night and it worked awesome. Tank the Abom's and let the dps worry about the rest. As a tank you just worry about slowly moving the Abomb's so Arthas doesn't catch up.Originally Posted by Baridin
I'm a warrior and have no problem tanking reg or heroic HOR. I usually use the LOS strat on the first two bosses. Sometimes my PUG doesn't pay attention when I say "Please stay along the wall untill I have aggro." When this happens the casters (Mages/Hunters) usually go after the healer or anyone else attacking. To get aggro on those mobs far away I usually use my Heroic Throw once and i'll have them. For the mages i try and keep up Spell Reflection. If I do not have initial aggro on them then I will taunt and throw up SR. Most of the melee mobs are easy to take care of, just SS the first one and then hit a Dev on the others. TC should hold them untill dps gets them down. Keep and eye on ur party as well. If you see a dps going mad crazy on a mage then charge it, taunt and SS. Then go abck to the melee group. Fairly easy fight you just need to pay attention to the ranged mobs along with your healer.
I have tanked (pally) it a few times myself I found the best thing to have is a ret pally for cc in priests, mages, or gunman. if you have a feral druid dps have them in bear, and a fire mage. I found it was easier to control and hold aggro on everything if you have everyone by the doors making then filter in that way giving the ret pally time to stun the mages or gunman ( if there is any) of not the priests then down everything run out and down the range then back to the door rinse and repeat. when it comes time for the runing from the LK just everyone by the wall and then run out and hold everything all range dps should use aoe for the small stuff then fouse on the bigs ones after. eveytime I ran it it was the last wave that ALMOST did us in and we made it.
just for a side note if anyone gives you a hard time you can always leave and do a lrd one. their loss and the buff is a good help too
hi can you help - i am really having problems with the mobs on the first two bosses.
everything i do seem to get everyone killed. LoS on the right in with one of the bosses - healer gets done on the last wave before the boss by the rouges. i cannot seem to stop them. thunderfail just take sto long to cool down. deverstate seem to take to long to work and the globle Cd on that is a killer. cleave does not get enough aggro. so target swaping and deverstae seems to fail.
getting them all in the entry way fails as well as most of the mobs seem to be ranged and i cannot get aggro on them fast enought before dps has taken aggro on something else so all i do is run around charge / interve and not getting any good results.
its so frustrating
178g in repairs today! i even went in as dps to see if another tank would have a better way of doing it. but i have seen DK and dru tank all fail in the same place i do.
what am i doing wrong?
oh i have completed it on my mage so i know its doable...
have a look at my gear as well see if i have any big issuse. (no gem in the gloves i juys got them - and with all the repairs cannot affort to get a gem yet)
absolutely awesome guys, thank you all very much
I cut'n'pasted a lot of these tactics to our forums (referencing tankspot for authenticity!) and we did it on normal to get a grip of the tactics (and because we had a new guildie to run through the first two dungeons first) without any wipes at all.
Heroic is up next but certainly in terms of kill orders, what to grab and where to grab it all the advice above is awesome.
I do this as dps on my priest and have done in ret spec too in both cases tanking by the door, while I took care of shackle undead/repentance on usually the hunter, the mage if not him. I then switched attention to marking a sucession of mobs for the group to nuke. So much more fun for me as a fight when I have lots to do not jsut regular dps spam rotation. Though why tanks I pug with can never seem to mark I dunno.
One of this patches best changes is not just leader can mark.
Having a DK in group makes this thing pretty much instant win no matter what class is tanking. I usually strangulate a mage, he runs to group, then use death grip on the rifleman bringing him. Then rotate b/t mage and priest interupting. While the other 2 DPS help me burn them down. But seeing how most dps DKs are retards dont expect the same out of the ones in your group
Also I just got my fleeing from Lich King in under 6 mins achiv with by far the least geared group i have been in. So its not all about gear.
Most DPS are just used to randomly grab a Mob, nuke it before you even touched it to tell you if one runs loose your threatt sucks.
I had a wonderful expirience on alt yesterday, a 4rth day 80 Frost/Blood tank alt i made a while back i go play when i'm unhappy or feel like visiting old friends on old realm.
while i got with random HC trown into Pits of Saron i was sure i was undergeared still wearing partitially 175 gear, group asked me to try none the less. first 2 pulls trash i checked healers power. first bigger pull cc skills of my group. got em through wipefree, undergreared and healer said "don't let unskilled ppl blame it on your gear. it was one of the smothest runs i yet been in and a lot easier than with most geared tanks i was here with."
Loved her for that.
for Halls of Reflections, the key in my oppinion is killorder.
part 1
this is the cc/teamwork check. some dps/healers will insist you do the LoS thing. i found it difficult to mark and grab and prefer having a good sight so i found it easier to take em from entrance side.
Set a kill order, if possible let ppl cc, mark. frostmage can take out melee. caster druid can root. let you ppl stun fear whatever you can use here. i found riflemen the most annoying with their traps so i assign my group dealing with them immediately. either cc or instant kill, then mages, while melee dies last. if teamwork fails on waves you most likely wont make part 2.
part 2 run like hell:
tip1: mark. insist they keep killorder so kills are a lot faster when everyone is nuking the same target. you cant really move Witchdoctors while you can if nessesary move abominations. kill what you cant move first. let em aoe ghouls then single target whichdoctors while you pick up all abominations incoming. mark up on the fly, skull should do.
tip2: check what abileties your group has to cc if needed, but also to boost the dps. remind them if nessesary to fire trinkets, heroism, whatever you got. if its just the last wave you failed, fire everything.
And don't let em give you that when teamwork didn't work. you sucess there as a team or you fail.
Last edited by Laskia; 12-13-2009 at 06:48 AM.
Update to my original post.
Ok well after practicing this instance, I had 2 successful groups with no wipes after that. The first group was great because we had a Shadow Priest for shackles. They shackled a mage or rifleman.
If you have a hunter in your group, tell them to misdirect one of the ranged to you because on my 2nd group we had no priest but a hunter and rogue and this tactic helped me a lot so I didn't have to immediately run to the rifleman and could make sure to get aggro on the others first.
I am about to respec so I get imp. spell reflect in my trash spec because it would seem to really help with all the witchdoctors and the mages in that instance and other instances. Try to keep spell reflect up as much as possible because it helps your healers and gives you some threat on the casters when you might not be able to run to dump threat on them immediately.
Tanking them in the hallway did work. It was a million times easier for me personally than trying to LOS them all because there was room to move. I would run to any melee that would spawn near the corner and shield slam them immediately then get prepared to heroic throw or taunt the others that run to you.
In the gauntlet part, it doesn't get really hectic until the last 2 walls. Save your challenging shout for the last wall. The problem I was seeing is there are so many mobs coming, one might reach the healer. So it's important to pay attention to where mobs are running and taunt accordingly.
If you are having issues, it could also be your dps not using their abilities to their maximum benefit. Watch to make sure they are attacking only 1 target at the start of the pull and not AoEing so you can't get threat. If they have misdirect or tricks make sure to use them etc. CC can also be very helpful. They may not understand that this is a challenge for a lot of tanks. I for one felt like I was going to have a heart attack after the 1st time I saw the last gauntlet section lol.
Good luck with this instance!
Some really great advice here!
A couple ideas that keep popping up; similar to the following:
The first group was great because we had a Shadow Priest for shacklesThese are 'getting back to basics' quotes and ideas. And I like them!"Please stay along the wall untill I have aggro."
These are basics that we either forgot or got away from. Pre 3.3 Heroics were races. How fast could your group run through?
- the DPS crew giving the tank a 5 count so he/she can get aggro
- using our CC abilities
- single target DPSing
As tanks it's not only the mobs that want to beat on us; it's our group when we wipe. Don't take it. Remind them of the basics.
My 2 cents.
Heard a good quote that made me chuckle:
If the tank dies, it's the healers fault.
If the healer dies, it's the tanks fault.
If the DPS dies, it's their own fault!
Good luck!
Onetuth
/cast Shield Slam
/use Hand Grenade
I can't figure out how to do this. My issue is inbetween waves.
We LOS in the room but the Healer will get aggro between waves and one of the mobs will zip around the courner and one shot the healer.
I tried explaining cc to various groups but I don't believe there is anyone left in the game who remembers how to CC like we did in TBC.
People need to learn that pretty much anything they do while mobs run in can generate threat and thus aggro while mobs are running in. Healing up and such between waves needs to happen as quickly as possible and people really need to resist anything last minute.
As a warrior tank, I have a couple of tips. I pool my rage on the last mob on a wave so that I have plenty to work with establishing threat on the next. I also save my bloodrage for when they starting running to us for initial aggro. If you're lucky enough to have a hunter, having them frost trap in front of the group is an immense help. Huge.
I'm a little less experienced with my frost death knight tank and don't feel quite so assured as I do with my warrior. A death and decay in the right place clearly helps. Howling blast + blood boil helps to get that initial aggro on mobs as they're gathering up. I struggle yet in getting aggro enough on the focus target (priest > merc > all the rest in my experience) while saving enough runes/cooldowns/rune power to aggro all of the mobs. I've managed ok in the past couple runs, but I can't say I know exactly what I should do like I can with my warrior.
Overall, I've had more trouble on the last wave of the gauntlet than anywhere else with the way that mobs are dancing around so much and needing to get aboms turned away from the group. Blech. Thank goodness for army of the undead.
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