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Thread: Threat Gen with Chill of the Throne

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawkz View Post
    Yeah this is all kind of frustrating but in reality, when has threat been an issue in this expansion.

    This. So hard.

    Yes, Pallies are doing more aoe threat in ICC.

    But are warriors unable to hold aggro on mobs? If the answer was yes, I'd be concerned. I've seen people pulling insane aoe dps numbers in there and I can STILL hold threat just fine. So why worry?

  2. #42
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    You can say oh whatever but increasing raid dps by 1-2k at the loss of mechanics that aren't even useful on single-target boss fights such as stuns and spell reflect is a pretty big deal. And here inlays the root of the problem, balancing pvp and pve.
    If your raid leader blames the tank when the boss enrages and wipes the raid you have one very clueless leader. Dps dps tanks reduce incoming damage and do tps our dps is a bonus. If dps was what we were suppose to do you can fury tank. Its no secret that prot warrior dps is probably the lowest of all the tanks but if you bench them for that you should first clear your roster of your subpar dps.

    What irks me about this though, is the fact that this situation ONLY happens to us. I guarantee you, if it was the opposite case, where warriors were dominating and paladins were where we are in terms of threat/survivability and quality of life, something would be done within the week.
    Last i checked warriors ruled the earth till lich king. Ok so we make trash pulls easier does that mean we need a nerf o so bad to let other tanks in on the trash, not really its trash. As for boss tanking I dont see us needing a nerf asap. i would say DKs need a buff more than we need a nerf right now.

    Blizzard did release pandora from her box when they made pallies really powerful aoe tanks. I dont think Blizzard should make every tank capable of what the other can do, tanking is a team game thats why there are 3 of you in a 25 man raid. If your pallie can aoe well then as a warrior pick out the target that needs to be dead first and have people assist off you or stun the group or for that matter disarm the whirlwind guy. Before you go say Pallies are OP try tanking Suarfang with 2 pallies (it can be done but a lot easier to put tanks without aoe/cleave in there rotation).

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfists View Post
    If your raid leader blames the tank when the boss enrages and wipes the raid you have one very clueless leader. Dps dps tanks reduce incoming damage and do tps our dps is a bonus. If dps was what we were suppose to do you can fury tank. Its no secret that prot warrior dps is probably the lowest of all the tanks but if you bench them for that you should first clear your roster of your subpar dps.



    Last i checked warriors ruled the earth till lich king. Ok so we make trash pulls easier does that mean we need a nerf o so bad to let other tanks in on the trash, not really its trash. As for boss tanking I dont see us needing a nerf asap. i would say DKs need a buff more than we need a nerf right now.

    Blizzard did release pandora from her box when they made pallies really powerful aoe tanks. I dont think Blizzard should make every tank capable of what the other can do, tanking is a team game thats why there are 3 of you in a 25 man raid. If your pallie can aoe well then as a warrior pick out the target that needs to be dead first and have people assist off you or stun the group or for that matter disarm the whirlwind guy. Before you go say Pallies are OP try tanking Suarfang with 2 pallies (it can be done but a lot easier to put tanks without aoe/cleave in there rotation).

    So the, warriors be MT FOREVER excuse is played yet again? Because ya know, we design the game ourselfs and made it that way eh?

    And secondly, only reason paladins are against seeing warriors buffed is because they are in the seat of power. They like being above everyone else, we all like being the most powerful.

  4. #44
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    Sigh.. why does every thread like this have to end up with:

    "But warriors were 'THE' tanks for classic/bc!"

    and

    "Your class can still tank, what's the problem?!"

    Really now? None of those sentiments are pertinent to the current state of threat and just instigate more class-warfare.

    Personally, I think we're devolving what should be a thread about class diffirences in threat rotations, specs, glyphs, mechanics, and such into something that will get locked for being inflamatory.

  5. #45
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    Warriors will never get aoe abilities on par with pallies, Avatariku. Every tank got them to help with dungeons. But in a pull scenario it is more worth your time to spell lock casters and disarm whilwind warriors than match aoe threat with a pallie. On a boss you do sunder armor which is by far one of the best debuffs in the game. No matter how much dps tanks do most guilds choose warriors for this debuff on the boss. I think its fair to say that bottem line on single target its easier for a pallie to do good tps because other classes have to weave in a "on next swing" move which also makes it more touchy for bad computers/internet connections but all things being equal our single target tps is higher due to the type of bosses we encounter in ICC but still lower than warriors from what i have experienced.

    It should be pointed out that tps for pallie in there is increased by our talent Crusade and glyph sense undead which will up us by 7% as well as being able to use holy wrath. Giving ret pallies seal of corruption/vengeance helped our threat where it really didnt need it. Im sure come cataclysm this will all be worked out (no doubt by shaving more off righteous fury).

  6. #46
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    Holy shield should yield a decent increase due to the chill:

    Before you had say, 60-65% avoidance so you only got 40-35% blocks, ie holy shield procs. Now you get all of your holy shield block plus your base from gear as holy shield procs, so that's at least 50% blocks. couple that with occasional redoubt (does it still work like that? i can't remember) filling you up to unhittable, your holy shield will be proccing a shitload more.
    Xíanth <Valkyria>

  7. #47
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    True Pallies will block more often but Warriors tend to block more. Both tanks get 30% block value from talents (redoubt for Paladins and shield mastery for Warriors). Holy shield will have a near 100% uptime giving us 30% block. Heres where we divurge as shield tanks. Redoubt has a 10% to be triggered by a melee or ranged attack to increase or block chance by 30%. Warriors have a 60% chance to block double the amount with Critical Block talent. Warriors get 5% block from Shield Specialization talent although this one gets moot with holy shield. Warriors also have Shield Block which will double shield block value and percentage for its duration.

    So in sum a Paladin will block more often and a Warrior will block more damage.

  8. #48
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    How does any of that correlate to a threat comparison?

  9. #49
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    It doesn't. People seem to think not being block capped makes us block more, but in fact the uncommon paladin that used to be block capped would only have 2 or 3% wasted block. It's hardly going to make the difference in single-target, and it won't make a difference in aoe anyway because while block capped, in aoe, holy shield wwould be consumed before the cooldown refreshed.

    Paladin threat has 2 things in ICC that were missing on part of the Coliseum: Undead mobs. Undead mobs mean our crusader bonus goes from 3% to 6%, and the smart paladin will also have the extra 1% from sense undead glyph.

    4% more total damage output, and usability of holy wrath(think thunderclap with a stun).I say "Part" of the Coliseum because crusade was already at full steam for everything past the Beasts fight. For every other fight Crusade was already at full power.
    There's nothing new in ICC that suddenly boosts paladin threat. People are just being beaten by paladins and complaining about it. Whether that is because people are bad, the paladins they see are good(or just better than them) or a legitimate imbalance in power, I don't know.

  10. #50
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    Thread closed. This isn't the place to complain or argue about silly class vs. class balances.

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